What would it take for you to walk into a room full of people – homeless, unwashed, five days sober after years of trying – fall to your knees, and say out loud, “Please help me. I can’t stop”? For Adam Vibe Gunton, that moment was the beginning of everything.

Adam grew up as a golden boy in Littleton, Colorado – defensive captain of Columbine High School’s state championship football team, home run derby hitter at the Little League World Series, straight-A student. By his twenties, he had VIP access to every club and EDM show in Denver. What nobody knew was that a 21-year-old had introduced him to cocaine when he was 12, and the hidden habit had never stopped. When his heroin addiction finally came out, he lost everything.

Rock Bottom Has a Basement

Adam describes his rock bottoms the way most people describe a bad week. There was the apartment, the loaded syringe, the suicide note typed on an iPad to his mom. There was begging his probation officer to put him in prison just so he’d stop using. There was Christmas Day on the floor of a trap house, calling treatment centers that wouldn’t accept him – because the system required Medicaid he couldn’t get because he was homeless. He ended up in a homeless shelter. Then got kicked out of the homeless shelter. Then got kicked out of the lunch line a week later.

“For people like us,” Adam told me, “it’s not about how deep we went. It’s about how high we can raise other people’s bottom.”

The Sponsor Nobody Expected

After almost a decade of daily meetings – sometimes two a day – Adam still couldn’t string together 30 days. His turning point came through the most unlikely sponsor: a man with less than two years of sobriety, who had never sponsored anyone before, who had nothing in common with Adam except one thing. “If we don’t do this work, we die.” He picked Adam up at 6:30 every morning in a 1983 mailman Jeep, drove him to the basement of the movie theater he managed, and they read the Big Book and did what it said. Steps one through three on day one. Step four done in two weeks.

“People like me die without the 12 steps. Shouldn’t that be the message?”

The IHOP Miracle

On day five of sobriety, Adam was at IHOP eating French toast when his drug dealer texted offering a free sample. Something took over. He felt a sensation move through his entire body, his thumbs started typing back in what he calls “King James English,” telling the dealer never to contact him again. When he looked up from the phone, Jesus was sitting across from him – a face surrounded by light, smiling.

“All the negative thoughts, all the sadness just went away. But the difference was that as all that negative stuff left, I was flooded with an overwhelming sense of peace, of purpose, of identity. For the first time in my life, I had a sense of okayness.”

He has not had a desire to drink or use since that morning. Two years before he got sober, Adam had overdosed with police body cams rolling. He later obtained that footage and used it in a TED Talk – making him, he believes, the only person to have shown their own dead body during a TED Talk. Today he runs Recovered on Purpose (recoveredonpurpose.org), a nonprofit with a 50-state resource guide for Medicaid-eligible people seeking treatment, co-founded Behavioral Health Partners (behavioralhealth.partners), and owns a 68-bed treatment center in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. His mantra: everything I do is for an audience of one.

Action Items

• If meetings haven’t been working, ask yourself honestly: have I actually worked the 12 steps quickly and rigorously with a sponsor – or have I been going to meetings and calling it the program?
• When looking for a sponsor, prioritize availability and willingness to do the work over how polished their life looks.
• Try Adam’s visual exercise: put your hands around your head – that’s your knowledge. Now try to hold the world. That’s God’s knowledge. Surrender gets easier with that picture in your mind.
• If you’re struggling to define “God,” start with a list of qualities you want your higher power to have. Rip off the list of what you don’t want. Start with the good half.
• If you or someone you love needs treatment, visit recoveredonpurpose.org for a free 50-state resource guide for Medicaid-eligible people.
• Remember: it’s not about how deep you go. It’s about how high you can raise someone else’s bottom.
• If you’re sitting in a borrowed car begging God to let you die – that might just be the moment everything changes. Hang on.

Resources Mentioned

• The Big Book (Alcoholics Anonymous)
• The Bible
• Recovered on Purpose – Adam’s nonprofit with a free 50-state treatment resource guide
• Adam Vibe Gunton’s TED Talk – search “Adam Vibe Gunton TED Talk” on YouTube
• AA.org – literature on sponsorship

👊 Need help applying this information to your own life?

Here are 3 ways to get started:

🎁 Free Guide: 30 Tips for Your First 30 Days – With a printable PDF checklist
Grab your copy here: https://www.soberlifeschool.com

☎️ Private Coaching: Make Sobriety Stick
https://www.makesobrietystick.com

Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or Amazon Music, or you can stream it from my website HERE.

You can also watch the interview on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/@theonedayatatimepodcast?sub_confirmation=1

Transcript

Adam Vibe Gunton

Adam, thank you so much for joining me today. Thanks so much for having me. Of course, yeah. I’m excited to talk about your TED Talk. You have the craziest, craziest body cam footage of yourself. We’ll have to put that somewhere. I’ll put a link to that somewhere, but that, that’s wild that you have that.

There’s a little story behind that. Um, but I like to start with a little game I call the lightning round, which is actually very slow. But it’ll be fun. It’ll sort of front-load the episode with some resources. So, um, when you first got sober, were there any books that really helped you early on? The Big Book.

Yeah. And the Bible. Yeah. Big Book and Bible, the Bs. The Bs are good. Yeah. Yeah. Did you, uh, go through a recovery, a, a faith-based recovery center or something like that? [00:01:00] Nope, I never found treatment, and that’s actually why I’m doing what I do now. Okay. Uh, I’ve been on the floor of a trap house on Christmas Day alone calling treatment centers trying to get help and not being able to find it, so I never got into treatment.

Wow, that’s crazy, especially with all the, the amount of rehabs there are. Um, that’s wild. Yeah. Okay, so Big Book, Bible. Um, do you have a go-to mantra or quote that you live by? And I’ll buy you a little time by saying that mine is, like, the one day at a time. But also I was thinking over the years, um, I sort of had this idea about finding the balance and recommit ’cause it’s easy to sort of spin out in one direction or another.

So my little saving grace was, you know what? We’re just gonna recommit. Yeah. E- e- everything I do is for an audience of one. Yeah. And when I think about that, it’s I’m never doing what I’m doing for, um, people to approve of. I’m [00:02:00] doing everything that I do for God to approve. Okay, so that’s your sort of overarching- Yeah.

I know that I, I believe that, uh… I just, my mantra is everything I do is for an audience of one, and the way that I think about it is that someday I’m gonna get to answer for everything that I do, and I get to answer. Like, when I see somebody on the street that, you know, nobody’s even talking to, like, just me stopping, smiling, you know, touching their shoulder, you know, saying, “Hey, eight and a half years ago I was homeless.

I was…” You know, just having that. You know, I’m… Someday I’m gonna see what that interaction meant to that person, you know? Yeah. I love that. That reminds me, a buddy of mine, um, was going around San Francisco with a sign that said free hugs, and remember when people were doing that a while ago? It was a while ago.

Yeah. But he said he hugged this homeless guy and he says, “Nobody has touched me in years.” Yeah. Like, I could see just how a simple hand on the shoulder, just [00:03:00] human connection would, could mean so much to somebody who feels ostracized. Yeah. So I actually, uh, told that to… Went to this little event, it was, like, this Christian entrepreneur event, met one of the speakers there, and was talking to her, and, um, she asked, “Well, like, how do we help people that are on the street, you know?

Because I don’t wanna give money,” and this and that. And I’m like, “Well, you don’t have to. The biggest thing you can do is just touch them. Even a hand on the shoulder- Mm-hmm … a hug, handshake. You know, people don’t do that with us.” And then I, I ended up seeing her, like, six months later. Apparently her husband is the pastor of a big church.

She started that, started seeing the impact it was having in her community on the people that normally, you know, you don’t go up and hug and stuff. Mm-hmm. And then her husband end up- ended up doing a whole message on it, and having the whole church going out and doing that. Wow. And the impact is huge.

That’s kinda what, what I was talking about with my mantra. I didn’t tell her that thinking, [00:04:00] you know, I hope she tells her whole congregation. I did it because I know it’s the right thing and that God is watching that kinda stuff, and he was, you know? Yeah. And, uh, yeah, that’s, uh, turning your mess into a message, that’s for sure.

Yeah. That’s beautiful. I love that. Um, when it comes to recovery, do you have a self-care routine? That could be, like, a morning practice. Maybe you attend a certain number of meetings a week or go to a retreat. What does that look like for you? Like, uh, more than 40 days ago, before I had a newborn. That’s right, you have a baby.

Yeah. Dude, all bets are off when you have a, you have a little dictator in your house. Yeah, right. A diaper dictator. Yeah. Um, I learned early on, like even when I was struggling, ’cause I was in the r- I was in the rooms trying for almost a decade- Yeah … and wasn’t able to pull 30 days together. And I learned early on that it’s not meetings that get or keep me sober, um, but [00:05:00] it’s helping other men go through the 12 steps, and sometimes women.

But I usually find men, and then I rigorously work on the 12 steps with them. Um, and then I, I carry it into everything I do, you know? Like- Mm … that’s my recovery, is that I’m no longer that person that was struggling with drugs and alcohol. Mm-hmm. I’m a person living on a spiritual playing field with God, doing my absolute best, who happens to fail every day at something.

You know? Mm-hmm. But I’m okay with it now. Yeah. I don’t have to shoot up because I’m a failure anymore, you know? Ooh, that’s a big one. Yeah. I think when we’re feeling, when our self-esteem is so low, any mistake feels, the magnitude just feels exponentially big. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. I love that. We can make mistakes.

Um, d- let’s see. So, so you, how lo- you’ve been sober over eight year, eight years now? Is that right? Eight and a half. November 6th, [00:06:00] 2017. Nice. Congratulations. Thank you. Is there, what is the one thing you wish you would’ve known right from the beginning? Um, that’s what’s so interesting is, like, whenever I think about that, I wouldn’t want to change any part of my path in recovery.

There have been a lot of things that I’ve had to think about, like, “Oh, I wish I w-,” no, I don’t. Because, you know, I- if I could go back and never use drugs, I think I would, because it caused a totally different trajectory, you know? Right. But, like, in recovery, I had to work so hard. I had to work so hard to get to where I am now.

Yeah. And it was… It wasn’t work hard, like, in a negative context. You know, I wouldn’t go back with any kind of knowledge to make it easier on myself, because the point of it was that I was working and learning the whole time, and it was… You know, um, you don’t have to have it all figured out and I- and you’re never going to.

You know? [00:07:00] So maybe that’s what I would, I would tell him. Yeah. I mean, that makes sense to me, because what you’re describing is the experience. Mm-hmm. Right? Like, working hard is like exercise. It’s growing pains. It’s good for you. There, there are certain efforts, exertions that we have that, that benefit us.

I can see why you’re like, “Nah, I wouldn’t change that.” Yeah. I worked really hard and, you know, you get the benefits from that. Yeah. Makes total sense to me. Um, you know what’s funny is I’ve been forgetting to ask this question, but it came up recently where we talk about God shots, right? Like, God intervening and something crazy happening, and it feels like we need to share more of those stories.

Does anything come to mind for you? Um, they happen so often. Like, I, I feel like a, a God shot is kind of the, the way that I live now. Even my wife, I told her very early on in our relationship that it’s [00:08:00] really hard to be around me for very long without starting to notice, like, God all over. Because when you’re listening and you’re, like, doing, like…

‘Cause sometimes He’ll tell you to do something that doesn’t make sense. Mm. But if you learn how to listen and do it anyway, like, that’s where the, the window opens to actually see how He works. He works outside of our understanding of why He’s telling us to take that next step. And then that’s what a God shot is, is like taking the next step and then seeing how, oh, He was trying to introduce me to this person right here.

You know? It happens all the time. No, I love that. And listen, you’re… I’m gonna go off script a little bit, but, um, learn- learning how to, um… You know, there, there’s all this talk about seeking and doing God’s will, and it’s understanding and trying to figure out what that is. It can be really confusing for a lot of people- Yeah

right? Because we think that we know what we want, [00:09:00] right? We’re like, “Oh, I have, I have this great idea, God. I have this great idea. I think you want me to do it, so I’m just gonna, like a steamroller, go and do this.” But sometimes I’m, like, banging my head against the wall, and I’m like, “Is this God’s will?” Yeah.

It’s like some- sometimes things are hard, and you just have to persist. So I think sometimes it’s confusing. I wanna work hard, I wanna be persistent, but also I’m not sure if this is your will for me. Sometimes I just flat out ask, “Can you please just make this obvious?” Yeah. Can you just make it- Yeah … can…

I’m feeling especially slow today. Yeah. Can you make your message clear? How do you think about that? Yeah, one of my favorite prayers is, you know, if this is where I’m supposed to go, make it a highway. Open the door wide open. If it’s not, shut the door in my face somehow. Make it obvious, right? Yeah. Make it obvious.

Um, and I think that, you know, it’s, it’s really… That’s what’s so cool about God is it’s a relationship. It’s not like this esoteric outside of [00:10:00] us, like trying to figure out, “God, what is your will?” It’s a relationship with a person that can talk to us. Yeah. And we, and when we hear his voice, we have to understand that that’s his voice, and it comes in like, you get seeds of it.

‘Cause you’ll get like a little, a little thing. Like, hey, you see that person over there? They need a hug. You know? I… And you getting out of yourself and going up and hugging that person and saying, “Hey,” you know, and telling your story or something. Yeah. Because you had that intuitive, like prompting to go do it, that’s when he starts giving you the big things.

Like, “Hey, see that person in that suit over there? Go, go introduce yourself.” Ends up being a mayor or something, you know? Because he, what he’s doing is he’s training you to trust me, and yes, you can go hug that person because then I can have you go talk to anybody at any time. And we… There’s a growth to it.

You know? Like even now, still, I, my little [00:11:00] mind, um, argues still. I don’t know why. I don’t know why. I still like… ‘Cause some of the things that he tells me to do, I’m like, “Really?” You know? And then the way that I train this to my, uh, to sponsees and, and mentees, like people that aren’t necessarily in 12 steps, but I, I have them put, put your hands around your head like this.

Okay? And you see how, how big your knowledge is, like this? Now put your, put your hand around the world. Yeah. You mean to tell me that, that your understanding is greater than God’s, who understands the entire world plus I like that. That’s a good visual for those that are just listening. Now you have to go watch the YouTube.

That was awesome. I love that. Um, I always like to kinda talk about how we got here, you know, and I’m always super fascinated with family of origin. I feel like what happens in childhood sorta sets the stage. So whatever you [00:12:00] wanna share about, you know, like maybe what your parents did when you were growing up, number of siblings, where, where you grew up, anything that you feel is relevant.

Well, I grew up in Littleton, Colorado. Um, I was, you know, I was like a golden boy. I, you know, won state wrestling in Little League. We won state every year for football. Won s- won state for baseball. I was the home run derby hitter at the Little League World Series- Yeah … in eighth grade, you know? Wow. And then I went to a high school everybody’s heard of.

I went to Columbine High School, and- Okay … and then, uh, you know, it was actually like an excellent experience, you know? Again, I was a cap- the defensive captain of my state championship football team, uh, my senior year at Columbine, and just had a really, um, a blessed upbringing. Mm-hmm. And the problem was that from 12 years old, I had a hidden habit because somebody introduced me to [00:13:00] cocaine, and my par- At 12?

Yeah. My parents didn’t know, you know? And here I was, I was also, like, asked to skip a grade. I was a straight-A student until I was in eighth grade, you know? Until cocaine hit the, hit the- And, um, you know- There’s a reason why drugs are illegal. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and I think that there was… That’s why I say if I could go back, you know, um, I think I would go back and not use cocaine at 12 years old.

Yeah. But basically anything else, I can’t blame that person, because I’ve had to get to a place, like, in my 12-step work where, you know, I fully understand that he was not doing it, it from a place of, like, trying to hurt me, you know? Right. Yeah. And he was also a hurting person, right? Um, and then I had to get to a place where I can ask myself, “Okay, at what, at what point was it my [00:14:00] responsibility to stop?”

At what point did I have full choice in what I was doing, hiding and sneaking around and not telling anybody, and then when somebody asked, I lied? You know, at what point was it my responsibility? So, um, I guess I say all of that is relevant because that’s how my addiction started, was I had this incredible environment around me with this hidden thing that was going on.

Mm. And, uh, it spiraled as soon as I got out of the house. Um, this person that gave it to you, was it an adult? Uh, 21, 22. Yeah. Wow, an adult. Okay. And, uh, uh, we don’t have to out this person, but yeah, that’s, uh, pretty, um… Yeah, that’s messed up, for sure. So, and, and you- Yeah, he didn’t, he didn’t mean, he didn’t mean to hurt me, [00:15:00] you know?

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. We might have to g- agree to disagree there. Yeah, I know. It’s like- Yeah … what did you think was gonna happen, you gave a 12-year-old a paint gun? Yeah. Um, okay, so we can move off that. Yeah. So I really appreciate, though, that you are very much about taking personal responsibility, ’cause it’s, it’s oftentimes people tell me these horrible stories, and it’s like, okay, well, clearly there was some trauma there, and, you know, uh, uh, 12 years old, it’s not your fault, you know, but at some point it’s like it’s not your fault, but it is your responsibility.

Yeah. So, okay, so you started pretty young, and so you made it out of high school pretty much unscathed. Did you go to college? I wouldn’t say unscathed. I barely made it out of high school. Okay, okay. Yeah, yeah. All right. Yeah. So you- And I think I, I basically made it out of high school because I was a, because I was on the football team and captain and all that.

You’re an athlete. Yeah. Man, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard people, like, getting away with all kinds of stuff [00:16:00] because they were an athlete. Yeah. I don’t think they knew the extent of stuff. It was just, like, I didn’t care about school anymore. Mm. No, I, I mean, I, from, like, I had to go to a special school in, like, fifth grade.

In seventh grade, I had to go to high school for a few classes in the morning and then go back to middle school. And then at a certain point, when things weren’t easy anymore, you know, like, I have to learn calculus to do math now? Like I’m not interested in that, you know? And then- That requires some effort.

Yeah, exactly. And then at some point, I just, like, stopped going or doing things. And then- Okay … um, barely, barely passed and graduated, but I graduated. And then I did, um, technically went to college. Technically, yeah, but I kinda just went… You mean you, you enrolled in college? Yeah, yeah. And I went, and I went, and I lived on, lived on campus and all that kind of stuff, but, uh, school wasn’t my thing.

I’ll just put it that way. [00:17:00] Yeah. Something else took, uh, precedence over school. Your priorities changed. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. So you know how, like, in the rooms they talk about it was fun, fun with problems, and then just problems. Let’s, let’s fast track to the just problems. What were some of the, um, experiences that you had that you were like, “Yeah, this is really a problem”?

You said, you mentioned being homeless. I mean, that’s… You’ve heard of rock bottom, like when people say, you know, you gotta let them hit rock bottom, right? Uh, I hit a rock bottom for sure, um, in like 2011, and I didn’t get sober for another six and a half years, you know? Wow. Yeah. There was, there was a point where, um, I was, you know, Mr.

Popular, like was on the list for any club I wanted to go to, was able to go to any like EDM show VIP and like all this stuff, and then, um, somebody found out about my heroin [00:18:00] habit, and then I got completely ostracized from everything, you know? Mm-hmm. Everybody. And then was in an apartment and, uh, loaded up a syringe with everything I had, wrote a note on an iPad, like a, like a suicide note on an iPad to my mom.

It’s- Oh. Yeah, really… It was a really bad suicide note too. And then, um, shot that up and then woke up in the morning, s- still in my arm, dead arm, and then I just start screaming at God like, “Why am I here? Why?” Like, “I don’t want to be here,” you know? I don’t think that I was serious at that point though. I don’t think that…

I just think that I was really out of control. I was really, really sad. I was really, really broken. I couldn’t stop using. I wasn’t at the point where like I really wanted to stop using, but I knew that I needed to stop using at that point, you know? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, and then, you know, you would think that’s a, that, that’s rock bottom.

But then, you know, a couple years later, I’m, I’m in a corporate housing apartment. You know, [00:19:00] I’m still housed, right, ’cause I can sell. I can knock doors and sell, so they will always house me, and they will always pay me. Mm-hmm. Um, and then again, I’m on the floor wanting to be gone. You know, calling the CEO and quitting my job because if I’m s- if I still stay here, I’m gonna, I’m gonna hurt myself, you know?

Um, and then I found myself in a homeless shelter, and I’m like praying. I’m on my knees praying. I’m still using at the time, and I’m looking around at these 36 other cots around, you know, and then that’s gotta be rock bottom, right? Living in a homeless shelter. And then I got 86’d from the homeless shelter.

Mm-hmm. Not even allowed… Like, I remember a week after I got kicked out of the homeless shelter, I went back in line just to get lunch and got kicked out of the lunch line. Uh, so that has to be rock bottom. Yeah. You know? And for people like us, I think, uh, you know, it, it can [00:20:00] go as deep as we want, you know?

Or, and it, it calls us, like us that are in recovery, it’s not about how deep we went. It’s about how high we can raise other people’s bottom. It doesn’t necessarily mean that somebody that’s, you know, uh, 23 years old and is, is blacking out and stuff, doesn’t mean that they will necessarily end up going down that same path that I went.

But what I can tell them for sure, if you have what I have, whatever you’re dealing with right now, it gets worse 100% of the time. Yeah. So that’s what I- that’s the message to people that are struggling with this thing that may not quite be there yet. Um, you can save yourself a lot of, a lot of pain You mentioned, um, going to meetings for a long, like 12-step meetings, I would imagine, for a long time.

Wh- what, where [00:21:00] was the disconnect for you? Um, they were therapy sessions and not talks about God and the 12 steps. I don’t think that anybody ever stopped me and told me I needed to do the 12 steps. I don’t think that that was the message I was hearing. Um, I heard a lot about somebody’s day and about the things that they’re struggling with in life and, you know, like make your bed, make a gratitude journal.

Mm-hmm. You know, I heard a lot of solutions that never worked for me, and I don’t know. And maybe, maybe it works for some people to call your sponsor every day and tell them how your day was. Maybe that works for some people. I couldn’t make it a few days in a row calling a sponsor sober, you know- Mm-hmm

telling him how my day was. When I started, I had to do these steps immediately. [00:22:00] Yeah. I did steps one, two, three in day one. Day one. And then step four I was done within, you know, couple weeks, two, three weeks. And that, the only relief that I got during that time, like from withdrawals and cravings and sickness and, you know, all this stuff going on in my head, the only relief I would get was when I would sit down and actually write my inventory, or I would sit across from my sponsor who was reading the book with me and doing the work with me.

It’s very d- Yeah … the 12-step program and the work of the 12 steps, um, it’s, it’s almost like a lot of the meetings that are happening now have let it go. Mm-hmm. People like me die without them. Shouldn’t that be the message? Like, let’s have a first-step meeting. How did everybody get here? Yeah. How is that gonna help- [00:23:00] Okay, yeah, that’s how I got here too.

Now what? I’m gonna go drink when I leave here, you know? Mm. And that was my experience. That was my- So you didn’t, you didn’t find a sponsor that was like, “We’re gonna start working steps right away”? No, no, I- It took you a while to find the right kind of sponsor? Nope. And even, uh, even when I heard the message to do the steps quickly, I went to people that had 28, 32 years in the group that I was in at the time, and they said, “We do one step a month.

Slow down. It’s not a race, Adam.” Yeah, it is. It absolutely is. Yeah. You know? The person that sponsored me, like, you know how they say you have to find somebody that you relate with, find somebody that has what you want, you know, all this stuff, right? Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. I went… I did that. That was the message, and I did that.

I always looked for the guy that was, you know, strong, [00:24:00] good-looking, had the business, had the truck, had the gorgeous wife, you know, that kind of stuff, the things that you want, right? Mm-hmm. And then they were… I was even sponsored by a celebrity Couldn’t get me sober. The person that ended up sponsoring me to sobriety had never sponsored anybody before, had less than two years sober, and was a gay man.

We had nothing in common except for alcoholism. F- for everything. Yeah. Except for if we don’t do this work, we die. Yeah. That’s what we had in common. That’s what I wanted. He me- and I’m getting chills. Like, literally my, like, I’ve got chills all over my arms because I remember, like, it was hard for me. It took, it took a day for me to be like, “Yeah, he needs to sponsor me,” because everything I had heard to that point was, like, they have to have what you want.

You know, all that messaging. [00:25:00] But what it really is is you have to have… You have to find somebody that has availability for you. For sure. He came and picked, he came and picked me up every morning at 6:30 AM in his 1983 mailman Jeep from a sober living house, or he would come meet me at trap houses when I was still struggling.

You know? Wow. Yeah. Because that’s how he stayed sober. And he came and picked me up every morning. We went to the basement of a movie theater that he managed, and we read the book and did what it said. That’s it. That’s it. Yeah. That’s awesome. Yeah. A good sponsor makes all the difference. There’s, there’s some good literature put out by AE.org about sponsorship.

I always encourage people to read the literature, ’cause there’s a lot of guidance around there, too. Because, like, you know, meetings and the program are two separate things, right? And, you know, the, the fellowship is… You know, it’s, let’s be fair. It’s not the hotbed of mental health sometimes, right? So… [00:26:00] I mean, we’re in it.

I’m telling you. Yeah. Yeah, this is, uh, not a t- talking down type of thing. I’m, like, in the pit. Yeah. Yeah. But, um, but there, there’s some rules around, you know, rules of engagement to consider. And one of the things is that, yeah, the, the program and the meetings are two separate things, and it’s the program that gets us sober, not the meetings, for sure.

Yeah. I’m curious, um, you have such a strong faith now. Did you grow up with religion and get away from it, or did you rediscover it when you got sober? What did that, how did that, um, process look like for you? Yeah. When I was 10 years old, um, and it was, it was shortly after the Columbine, um, tragedy. Mm-hmm.

And I was in fourth grade, and I don’t, I don’t really know how to describe it better than I started understanding a presence. But- Hmm … my family didn’t go to church, you know, wasn’t [00:27:00] a thing really. Um, and I didn’t really know who to go to with it, but I knew that s- there was something else, right? And then I asked my, one of my best friends at the time, he, him and I were having a sleepover at my house.

Asked him, he said, “Well, all, all I know is we have to accept Jesus in our heart.” And I was like, “Well, how do we do that?” He’s like, “Well, we gotta get on our knees.” Two 10-year-old boys in the basement of my mom’s house facing each other. A little prayer. Yeah. Well, all he said was, “Do you accept Jesus in your heart?”

And I said, “Yes.” And I, and I got the Holy Spirit goosebumps, you know- Uh-huh. Yeah … for the first time, and I was like, “Oh, my gosh. That’s it.” That’s it. I’m saved. Yeah. And then from that moment, that’s when I started understanding. Like, I never, even through my whole addiction, even through everything, I never doubted Him, His presence.

Really? Yeah. No, that was something, like, I always [00:28:00] doubted myself. I always shamed myself. I always thought that I wasn’t good enough. I, I never… Like, I always thought that He couldn’t love me, you know? Like, I never doubted that He was God- Mm … but how could He care about me? That was my issue. Mm. And that was a learning process for me because I had to learn that He loves me the same now that He ever will and ever did.

Mm-hmm. And anything I do can’t change that, you know? And that’s why I, like, when I say that I do everything for an audience of one, it’s not to earn His love. That’s not what it is. It’s because I know that He put me here, and I get to meet Him. Like, I get to see Him, and everything that He had for me here, and all the ripple effects of all the things that I listen to and all that kind of stuff, I know someday I’m going to understand.

[00:29:00] And- Mm … I think my addiction brought me closer to Him- Because it t- it taught me reliance on him that I don’t think I could have understood without really going through something like that where nothing… I tried everything this planet has to offer to quit drugs. Tried everything. Mm-hmm. And I couldn’t stop.

Yeah. And then he came in the picture. So did, uh, your faith in God come after you started going to, like, after you started going to meetings or Well, I had it the whole time. I always knew God was there. Do you mean like- Yeah … my faith like, um, I never doubted him. I doubted myself. It’s really like, what do you mean by faith?

Okay, so here’s, here’s my hangup. Me and God broke up- Yeah … for a while. We’re all good now. But we broke up for a while because I spent… I [00:30:00] grew up within the church, and I really wanted to be good. I would have these spiritual experiences at church. I knew God. Yeah. And I- also human. So I s- I also… But I didn’t know that the trauma that I experienced was, um, affecting, um, how I was behaving.

So I was reaching for things. I didn’t know it was related to my trauma till much later. Much, much later. But I was always begging God to fix me, change me. I wanna be good. I wanna be good. I was always like… And, um, and I was s- still behaving in ways that were contrary to how I wanted to be, how I thought God wanted me to be.

And after failing and failing, af- after a while, I just gave up. I was like, “Fuck you, God. You’re… Like, I asked you, I begged you to fix me.” It’s like, okay, this is a God-sized job. I can’t, I can’t fix me. And I just got so discouraged. And I mean, even in the, even in the days where I was, you know, drinking and using as an adult, right?

And [00:31:00] I would h- like, even after we broke up, I would try to get back together with God type of thing. And, um, yeah, I would just be, I would just get so discouraged. Because it wasn’t like I felt like I was doing everything that I could. I was asking, surrendering, you know. So I was feeling like I was, did everyth- And then, uh, and then so I, I abandoned God ’cause God wasn’t doing his job.

So it wasn’t until I re- Yeah, you talk about hitting rock bottom. I felt like I skipped along rock bottom for a while. Mm. For a couple years probably. Yeah. And it was, it was the kind of rock bottom where I was like, “Do I even wanna be here anymore?” And I think the only thing that kept me on, from doing, taking action, was the, I was sort of raised with the, uh, if you commit suicide, you’ll go to hell.

Mm. So that was sort of like the thing that kept me from doing anything. But I put myself in dangerous situations all the time. [00:32:00] So I don’t know what happened. I get sick and tired of being sick and tired. I meet some people, I get sober, and I’m sort of reintroduced to this idea of God. And so I had an, you know, step two for me was all about redefining what this higher power was.

Didn’t have a gender Right? It was like this… It, and so I had to, like, come to an understanding of what made sense for me, and then, um, I think it was a combination of things, like just being sick and tired of being sick and tired. I shot all my angles, and I was ready for however you wanna define that. And then I was slowly sort of reintroduced to spirituality.

Mm. And that is something that has grown and developed over time. So it’s interesting to talk to some- ‘ca- ’cause I feel like a lot of people really wrestle with this idea of a higher power, right? So I’m just curious, like, how did you reconcile it? ‘Cause it sounds [00:33:00] like you went through a period of time where you were kinda like me, where you were asking for help, but you were still using.

So how did, how do you make sense of that? Yeah, there was, there was definitely seasons. Um, there was a long season of me knowing that he could, but why would he for me? Because I’m- Yeah, I get that … I’m this, yeah, this dirty- I’m a terrible person. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, that was a big part, because I never lost my faith in him, who he is, what he did, all of that.

That never left me. It just, I had to shift to where I understood his love for me personally. Personally, yeah. I get that. Like, I have him within me- Yeah … and it never changed. Mm-hmm. And it doesn’t matter what I do, ’cause I always thought, like, I had to [00:34:00] earn him helping me. Like, I have to go to three meetings today.

You know? I have to go to- Yeah … church Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, you know? Yeah. And I, and all of these plans were so tightly in my grasp, in my plan- Yeah … that none of them could work, ’cause it made it so I couldn’t listen to his plan, you know? Yeah. And I think- All roads lead to it was your fault. Yeah.

Yeah. I think he- I had to learn that he lives in peace. Like, if I’m agitated, irritated, need, need, need, like, ah, like, I’m in here. Afraid. Afraid- Yeah … angry, resentful, all that stuff. Like, I’m in here, and I’m thinking about me. Me, me, me, me, me, me, me. Yeah. It’s hard to recognize that until you understand that ev- any negative feeling you have will always come back to me, me, me, me, me, me, [00:35:00] me, me somehow, right?

Yeah. And it’s impossible to be present with God and me, me, me, me, resentful, like, hatred or anger and that kind of stuff at the same time. If you are… You can be angry and everything with him- Being present with him and talking with him and understa- and like just like letting everything go, that’s, that’s what I had to learn.

Like, he lives in presence and peace, and my negative feelings are either in the past, in the future, somewhere else, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah, I get that. I, I feel like, you know, as humans we have like this negativity bias. We’re trying to, you know, um, look for problems that could potentially hurt us or problem-solving a lot and, you know.

But, uh, it’s hard when you’re in pain and you’re like, “I need to [00:36:00] get out of it,” you know, “God, please help me,” and you continue to use. That’s a, that’s a really tough place to be. Um, so I’m curious, uh, what happened, uh, eight and a half years ago that finally tipped the scale for you? Did s- was it something specific?

Do you feel like it was a combination of things? What, what finally tipped the scales for you that you could maintain your sobriety? Yeah. Um- It, it was a series of events. And, um, I had been going to 12 step meetings every single day for months, uh- Mm … every single day. At least one, usually two. Bible study every Tuesday, church every Saturday, every Sunday.

Even went to the local MMA gym thinking they might be able to beat recovery into me. And nothing- Like, be physically exhausted s- Yeah. Yeah, I get that. Yeah. And I was on probation, you know, had to go, had to take UAs. I never passed one UA for probation. [00:37:00] Ooh. Never passed one. They knew, by the time I got sober, they knew, and they just took me off.

Like, I never- … passed a UA for probation. Yeah. What happen, what happens when you fail a UA for probation? Don’t they typically send you back to jail or something? I, I got to a point where I was going in to pr- my probation officer with a five-year sentence hanging over my head, begging him to put me in prison.

Oh. I wasn’t like… I wasn’t hiding it. You know, when I told you that I was calling and trying to get treatment? Yeah. My probation officer and judge were trying to get me into treatment. Nobody would accept me. Oh. I was on probation in a different- Why? Why wouldn’t they accept you? Um, technically, this is what they told me, is because I was technically a resident of Colorado and on probation in Montana, so the treatment centers, like, I would’ve had to get some kind of Medicaid that I couldn’t get because I technically wasn’t a resident because I didn’t have a house because I was homeless.

So I couldn’t get the resources [00:38:00] to go into treatment. Nobody would accept me. So- Our system is such a mess. Yeah. Yeah. And that’s why I’m in what I do now. Um, so I’m doing all these things for months, and then, um, on a Tuesday, I had used the day before, and it was Bible study day. I was borrowing a car that this girl let me borrow, and it wasn’t stolen, but I had to start it with a screwdriver.

Um, yeah. It was a jalopy. Yeah. And, uh, I’m sitting in that before driving over to Bible study, and I realize that I have actually tried everything to stop. I have literally gone into my probation officer asking to put me in prison so I could stop. Yeah. And I can’t. So I sat back in the chair, or in the seat in the car, and I audibly said to God, I said, “I’m, I’m done.

I, I can’t do this anymore. I’m not going to [00:39:00] Bible study. I’m not going to meetings. I’m not going to church. Please just let me die.” And remember when I did that about, uh, five years earlier and wrote the note to my mom, um, I don’t think I was super serious about not wanting my life. Mm. I remember in that moment how honest I was being.

I didn’t wanna be here anymore. Please- Yeah … just take my life. Let me die. And right after I said that, I heard the voice, not audible from behind me or above me, but it’s like it went right into my heart, and he said, “It’s time. Go.” And you would think, like, you would get super excited and like, “Oh my gosh, I heard the voice of God,” you know?

Um, but I got angry. I got upset because what’s different about this time than all the other times it was time and I dumped all my dope in the toilet saying I’m never gonna use again, and then I [00:40:00] wake up in the morning and I pawn my TV? What’s different about this time, God? So I start screaming at him and I’m hitting the roof of the car like, “What’s different about this time?

Please just let me die,” and I’m crying and crying. And then I get through that, and then, uh, I sit back and I’m just crying, and I hear him again, and he just repeats himself, said, “It’s time. Go.” And then when he repeated himself, I got something that I had never felt before where all of my plans actually left me.

Mm. And I was willing to do whatever he put in front of me to get sober because I realized at that moment there was nothing I could do of my power. Go to the Bible study, I’m 12 minutes late, open the doors, they’re in the middle of prayer, and I drop down on my knees and I throw my hands up. I’m like, “Guys, please help me.

I can’t stop. I used again. Please help me. Please help me.” Homeless, haven’t showered in a while, got to [00:41:00] imagine they’ve been hearing this for months, right? My best friend Brendan leading the Bible study comes over. He’s like, “Hey, bud, let’s just… Come on, let’s just get through Bible study,” you know? And, um, that was step one and two.

And then at the end of Bible study, Carmen, an elder that’s in the, in the group, came over to me and he said, “Hey, I just got a word. I need to, I need to pray for you.” And for the first time in my life, he… someone sat me down on an ottoman in the middle of this room. Brendan and George were standing behind me.

Everybody else had left. Carmen’s in front of me. He puts his hand on my shoulder and he starts speaking to spirits, praying for me. “In the name of Jesus, leave.” And he’s just, like, pointing at me and speaking, and it’s the first time in my life. You hear about these things. They’re in the Bible. It tells us to do it at the end of the Gospels, you know?

And we’re actually… I’m, I’m feeling these things happening. I’m feeling things leaving me. My body is, like, getting tight, and then shoulders are getting [00:42:00] loosened, and, like, things are happening, right? And then, um, he finishes and leave. Few days later, still homeless. I know all that, all that stuff was happening.

Haven’t used in, like, five days. Crazy. Brendan comes and picks me up, ’cause while I was homeless, he would come pick me up from the streets, from the homeless shelter, and he would just, like, take me to lunch, coffee, Bible study, church, whatever. Was just there with me, right? He takes me to IHOP to have breakfast.

I am stoked that I have five days sober, right? So, I’m just, like, talking, like, “Yeah, dude, uh, I made it. Like, I’m gonna do this, you know? I’ve got five days,” and, you know, I’m eating French toast, and then I get a text message, and I open up my little flip phone, and it’s from my dope dealer. He’s like, “Hey, bro, I just got some new stuff.

It’s fire. I’ll give you a free 20 to try out.” Right when I read it, I felt something going through the top of my head all the way through my body. My toes were tingling. My fingers were tingling. I lost my peripheral vision. All I could see was the phone, and then my thumbs just started [00:43:00] texting back. And it was in, like, King James.

It was like, “You shall not text me again. Thou hast texted me for the last time.” And it was going crazy. And then at the end of the text, I feel this thing leave me and go all the way from my toes all the way up through my head. I was like, “What the heck?” And I, as I was typing that, I couldn’t even, like, read it.

So I’m reading it, and I’m like, “Brendan, that wasn’t me.” I was like, “That wasn’t me.” And he was like, “Okay.” Like, has no idea what’s going on. I’m just having this crazy spiritual experience over here. And I push send. I close the phone. I’m like, “Dude, I don’t know what that was.” Put it in my pocket, and I look back up, and Jesus is sitting across from me I had compl- it was totally different place, was out of the restaurant.

All I could see was his face, big glow coming from behind him. He was smiling at me. And in that moment, like, the only thing I can compare it to is when I used to shoot up heroin. Like, all the negative thoughts, all the sadness, all the, all that [00:44:00] stuff just, like, immediately just, oh, goes away. But the difference in that moment, and this all happened within o- like, less than a second.

The difference in that moment was as all that negative stuff left, at the exact same moment, I was flooded with an overwhelming sense of peace, of purpose- Oh … of identity, of, the first time in my life I had a sense of okayness. And I feel like only alcoholics understand that word, like, okayness. Mm-hmm. And immediately I just knew who it was, knew it was happening, fell off my face on the table, my hand up.

I said, “Thank you, God. Thank you, God. Thank you, God.” Came back up, he was gone, back in the restaurant. Brendan’s sitting there like “The heck?” “Are you okay?” Yeah. Yeah. You’re like, “I’m so okay.” Yeah. And then I’m of the faith, I believe, that Jesus is able to heal like that, [00:45:00] you know? Mm-hmm. Like, disease, cravings, withdrawal, all that instantly.

Did not happen for me. Mm. Like, for the next three weeks I am, like, shaking. You have to imagine, this is the first time I’ve had time away from a needle in years, you know? So I’m shaking when I wake up. Like, ugh, I’m, like, craving and withdrawals. And the only re- Wa- was that, like, your detox period? Yeah. You were detoxing?

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I was detoxing for a while, you know? Um- Sure, yeah … but I didn’t, but I didn’t have a… I had to do this at a sober living house, you know? Right. Yeah. Um, and then the only relief I would get was when I was actually sitting across from my sponsor doing the work- Mm-hmm … or if I was actually sitting writing my inventory.

So you know what I did with all of my free time? The steps. Yeah. What else do I have to do? Yeah. And then on day 25, my sponsor came and picked me up in the morning, 6:30 AM, in his 1983 Mailman [00:46:00] Jeep. And we go to The Rims in Billings, Montana, and I read him my fifth step. Wow. Nothing miraculous. Nothing miraculous happens.

Go back, have the day, start my sixth and seventh. I go back, do the hour, all that kinda stuff. Next day, 6:30 AM, he comes and pick, picks me up, 1983 Mailman Jeep. We’re on our way to the movie theater. I’m looking over at this beautiful sunrise, and for the first time in my life since I was 12 years old, I had no desire to drink or use.

Mm-hmm. And it has not come back. And since that day- Wow … because before that, I didn’t think it was possible. I didn’t think somebody like me could not have to use. Right. From that day on, I have known that it is my mission to help other people find that feeling. Yeah. Yeah, I love that. Beautiful story. I mean, it says in the Big Book, “Nothing ensures sobriety like intense work with another alcoholic.”[00:47:00]

Yep. There is magic in that. Amen. Yeah. Oh, thank you so much for sharing that. That, that is really beautiful. I, I feel like everybody needs to hear, you know, these stories of hope. You know, hope is hearing other people’s experiences, and I know that there are people who, you know, are like us, who tried over and over and over again, and begged God for years, and really struggled.

And even then, even then, there is hope. Oh, yeah. Even then there is hope. And the interesting thing for anybody that hasn’t, uh, shut off because I said Jesus on a podcast I know … um, the thing is, is, uh, I- I’ve sponsored probably 70 to 80% of my sponsees have not been Christians, you know? When I’m doing Big Book work- Mm-hmm

like I knew Jesus from 10 years old. I- Yeah … read the Bible. I wrote my own 12-step program while banging meth. But there was- Yeah. [00:48:00] I, I knew God the whole time. But why was it that I couldn’t get sober at church or Bible study? You know, I’m well aware that something is there in the bl- in the Big Book, in those steps, that works for anybody no matter who God is to you.

Yeah. And I make it very clear at the jump with sponsees that, like, this process is gonna introduce you to God. Whoever that is for you is perfect. I’m here to- Yeah … witness that. ‘Cause I’ve seen… I’ve sponsored an atheist that he would argue with me, argue and argue and argue- … about, like, the existence and everything.

And then we’re reading through We Agnostics. We’re at this, uh… We’re at a cafe sitting across from each other, and he’s like, he’s… The whole time he’s just like, “Ah, that’s BS,” blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then at this one moment, he’s putting his finger up to point at the book while he’s going on a rant, and he stops, and he looks up at me and he’s like, “I feel Him.”

I [00:49:00] feel Him. Th- that’s what we get from the Big Book- Yeah … and from intensive work. Yeah. You will have a spiritual experience. Yeah. Doesn’t matter who God is to you, you will. Yeah. And it’s a promise. Yeah. Yeah. Listen, there’s a whole section called The Promises. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’s, it’s an amazing process.

And, and I… For me, the whole process kinda brought me back to the, my childhood experience of God. Mm. And, um, you’ve been using God in the He form, and I remember when I first got sober I would put a, would, uh, put an S. Like, in the, in, in a lot of the 12-step literature, you know, it’s, you know, written by a couple of guys from a Christian background.

And, and, uh, uh, it… So, it, it… But it worked, you know? It was like, for me, God was something that I really couldn’t define. It wasn’t gender orient- And that’s [00:50:00] what I loved about 12-step. The… You know, when I first started going- I kept hearing about all this God stuff, and I was talking to this girl, and I was like, “If this is what this is, I’m not gonna be able to do it.”

And she was like, “Oh, don’t even worry about it. That’s not a thing.” And I was like, “What do you mean that’s not a thing?” She’s like, “Well, may-” And this is the exercise that we did. I talk about this all the time, so if you’re listening and you’ve heard me say this, I’m so sorry. But, um, she said, he… So she gave me a piece of, gave me a piece of binder paper, and she drew a line, and she’s like, “Uh, just if, if you, just for funsies, if you could say all the attributes of God, what would you want it to be?”

So I was like, “All-powerful, all-knowing. I’m the favorite, clearly.” “All love,” you know what I mean? Like non-judgmental, all that stuff. And then she’s like, “Okay, what do you not want it to be? Like, what are some of the ideas that just repel you?” And it’s… And, and so I, you know, judgmental, condemning, um, whatever.

So I just put a bunch of stuff. I don’t even remember. And she was like, “Are you done?” And [00:51:00] I’m like, “Yeah, I’m done.” And she, I… She’s like, “Okay, ma- give me your paper.” So I handed it to her, and she ripped it in half. And she handed me the good side, and she’s like, “We’ll just start with this.” And I was like, “That’s it?”

Yeah. She said, “That’s it.” Yeah. Right. And so I was like, “Okay.” So I was like, I got into it with, like, the energy and, you know, all that stuff. So that, that stuff that’s like… When people say to me that they’re an atheist and they don’t believe in God, and I was like, “Well, what are you, what are we talking about here?”

Because if you understand what energy is, like, co- that’s what it is. I think it’s the word. Like, people have assigned meanings for, like, a word, and I think the word God has been so distorted. Like, have you ever seen an image under several layers of glass that’s, like, totally distorted? Like, everybody puts on…

I’ve heard it said that if you have a problem with God, you probably have a problem with someone else’s God. And, and that was, that was true for me. So it was so… I, I feel like I got lucky. Like, I met these people right out of the gate that were like, [00:52:00] you know, they… To help me understand things that I was confused about.

And, and God- Yeah … was definitely one of the things I was confused about. So it was sort of like a reintroduction to this idea of God, this higher power. The, the book says that it’s the whole purpose is to give you access to a higher power, right? So- I lo- I love just hearing how people reconcile, and even my friends who…

I had this guy on my podcast twice that was an atheist, and when he was describing, you know, he, um, talks about, like, values and attributes, and I was like, “That’s God.” Where did those come from? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Funny you should say that. Yeah. But it does- it doesn’t matter what the word we use. It’s, it’s, I think, the spirit that’s, that behi- that’s behind it, like being able…

I think what sort of used to hang me up o- you know, over the… I’ve been sober a long time, and there are certain things that are just a struggle for me. I’m a little bit of a workaholic, you [00:53:00] know, and I want certain things to happen. And, uh, this idea of God could and would if he were sought, and it’s like, I know God can, but I don’t know if God will.

Exactly. Right? Yeah. Yeah, and that’s where I sort of struggle with, uh, please make it obvious. Yeah. Please, please make it obvious ’cause I think sometimes that God puts a desire on my heart for a reason, but it’s confusing to me ’cause if I’m banging my head against the wall, then it’s like, is this hard work or is this your will for me?

So that’s, uh, that’s where it gets confusing sometimes, but I like what you said about making it a highway. You know, desire, the root of desire is actually of the Father. Mm. That’s what- Yeah … desire means, is that the Father put it there because it’s your call. Yeah, so then I fall back to, well, it must not be in God’s timing then.

Yeah. Because sometimes things aren’t happening, and it’s, it’s easy to get frustrated and discouraged. Yeah. So yeah, trust in God’s [00:54:00] timing. Yeah. And he’s out, he’s outside of time. I think that’s pretty clear because he can show us something- Yes … that we’re gonna have 20 years from now- Yeah … as if it’s there tomorrow.

And then- Yeah … alcoholics are like, “Why isn’t it here yet?” Well, because there’s this- Yeah … whole path I have to guide you through to make it funsies. So when you have it, you’re like, “Wow, I worked on that.” You know? Could you imagine a homeless- Yeah … 148-pound me, I’m 220 now, a homeless 148-pound me being told that he’s gonna beat the six-minute mile, be able to bench press over 325 pounds, is gonna do a TED Talk, be a bestselling author, run a nonprofit, own a 68-bed treatment center, when I can’t even get into treatment at the time?

You think if he would’ve shown me all of that, I would’ve been able to take the next step? No, I would’ve been way too scared. Like, I can’t handle that. Just, I’m gonna go ahead and just write my resentments down for now. Is that okay? Yeah. Baby steps. Yeah. Yeah, I get that. Um, I, I do wanna [00:55:00] ask you about your TED Talk, ’cause in the TED Talk you do show…

Tell me a little bit about the TED Talk and why it was so powerful, ’cause as soon as I saw, I got a, um, an email from your publicist talking about, um, your TED Talk and, and why it was so significant. Do you wanna just tell the story? Well, um, in 2015, actually my sobriety date, exactly two years before my sobriety date- Mm-hmm

uh, I was at my then girlfriend’s house, and I was hiding my drug habit from her, and I left the house, went around the corner, shot up, uh, what was supposed to be China white heroin, and, um, I didn’t feel anything. I thought it was bunk. Got kind of upset. Um, next thing I know, I’m waking up on a pile of glass on the asphalt, blue and red lights, cops, ambulance, all this stuff around me, um, and I’d overdosed.

Mm-hmm. And then, uh, few years later, I ended up getting the body cam footage [00:56:00] of that. So I happen to be, I think, the only person that did a TED Talk where they show their own dead body in the talk, and then they’re like, “Surprise, I survived.” You know? I survived. Yeah. Yeah. Two years, yeah, two year- so it was two years between that time and when you got sober.

Yep. November 6th, 2015 is when that happened. November 6th- Mm … 2017 is when I got sober. November 6th, 2019 is when I published my book, and it became a bestseller. Wow, November 6th is a good day for you. Yeah. I, I try to do something on November 6th, and I, uh… People celebrate their sobriety dates. I celebrate it by doing something I can give back with, like something where I’m, I’m giving it to others, you know?

Yeah. The first one was for me. Like, I could not believe that I had just made a year, you know? Like, that was just, like, crazy to me, and it took- Wow … a lot of work. Yeah. Um, and then since then, since I got that one, [00:57:00] I, I started trying to do something each year where, um, someone else is gonna get helped. Yeah, I love that, giving back.

I’ve heard some people be like, “Yeah, give a dollar for every year that you’ve been sober.” That’s a- … that’s a, that’s a fun one too. Yeah. Um, listen, we c- thank you so much for sharing that. Um, and I know you’re doing a lot of work to try to help others. Uh, how can people find you? What kind of service work do you do?

Uh, recoveredonpurpose.org, that’s my nonprofit. We have a 50 state resource guide for, uh, Medicaid or Medicaid-eligible people for rehabs. So nobody has to be on a- Wonderful … on a, uh, trap house floor on Christmas looking for help. Um- Yeah … all the, uh, applications are there for you as well. And then, um, behavioralhealth.partners, I help people open and market treatment centers.

Um, so yeah, that’s what I do. And then we have a 68-bed full continuum treatment center [00:58:00] in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. So we’ve got detox, inpatient, outpatient, and we’re building sober living. So if anybody, um, needs treatment, we’re in-network. I don’t really understand all the insurance and everything, but, um, yeah, we would love to help.

You’re trying to make it accessible to as many people as possible. Yeah. So we actually specifically made it… So we’re, we are working with, uh, Medicaid also, you know- Nice … and it’s, it’s the hardest thing to work with. Like, you would think- I can’t imagine … yeah, you would think that the people- The red tape

that need it most, yeah. The people that need it most, actually, uh, it’s just very, very difficult system. Um- Okay … but we allocated minimum 20%, so that even if they don’t pay us, we made the business model work. Okay. Yeah. I love that. Yeah, you’re doing such important work. Thank you so much for all the work that you’re doing.

I’ll leave links to everything in the show notes at odatchat.com. Um, but Adam, thank you so much for your time today, and [00:59:00] thank you for all of your work that you’re doing. Thanks so much for having me. It’s good, good talking to you.