What if the very habits that helped you survive childhood are the ones quietly keeping you stuck in adulthood?
Katie Hingle spent nearly three decades in leadership at Adobe, raised two daughters, served as a surrogate mother to twins, and built a reputation as the person who brought calm to organizational chaos. On the outside, she had it all together. On the inside, she was slowly discovering that the same drive, organization, and self-sufficiency that made her exceptional at work were also keeping her from asking for help, telling the truth, and recognizing when she was headed off the rails.
When Recovery Goes Deeper Than Sobriety
Katie got sober at 28 after years of escalating drinking that started with a shot of blackberry brandy at age eight and turned into blackouts, shame spirals, and a life she couldn’t piece together in the morning. But sobriety wasn’t the end of the work – it was the beginning. “Once you got the drinking out of the way,” she told me, “I learned I had untreated perfectionism, untreated people-pleasing, untreated codependence.” Recovery, for Katie, became a lifelong process of peeling back layers and learning to ask for help – something that didn’t come naturally to someone who threw away her security blanket at age four to be a “big girl.”
The Slow Burn of Resentment
After years of long-term sobriety, Katie relapsed. Not dramatically, not all at once – but through a three-year accumulation of self-pity, blame, and silence. She was working hard, supporting her husband through a career transition, traveling constantly, and watching colleagues drink without consequence. She stopped being honest with her spiritual community about how much pain she was in. And then one day, the thought of having a drink wouldn’t leave. “I was calling myself a nobody,” she said, after someone told her: “If you tell yourself nobody knows, you’re calling yourself a nobody.” That line broke the denial.
Collateral Growth
What Katie found on the other side of getting honest was something she now calls – borrowing from her sister – “collateral growth.” Not collateral damage. When one person does their work, everyone around them shifts. Her marriage changed. Her relationship with herself changed. And she launched Lavish, an experience company built on a principle straight out of recovery: start with feelings, not logistics. “I ask how do you want that person to feel? How do you want to feel?” she explained. “Those feelings inside of us are the guideposts.”
“If you tell yourself nobody knows, you’re calling yourself a nobody.”
Recovery isn’t linear. It’s fits and starts, two steps forward and sometimes three back. But the work you do on yourself never goes to waste – it ripples out to every relationship, every decision, and every version of yourself still to come.
Action Items
- Use the Serenity Prayer as a written exercise: list what you can’t control, list what you can, then act on only the second list
- Check in with yourself daily – ask where you were dishonest yesterday, not to beat yourself up, but to stay current
- Notice the “boiling water” feeling inside – when you feel that heat, pause before acting
- When you’re blaming someone for how you feel, ask yourself: “What power am I giving away right now?”
- Practice asking for help in at least one small area this week
- Find your version of silence – a morning routine, a retreat, a walk without your phone
- Start any gift or gesture with “How do I want them to feel?” before you pick the logistics
Resources Mentioned
- Sermon on the Mount by Emmett Fox
- Marianne Williamson – A Course in Miracles lectures and writings
- Breathing Underwater by Richard Rohr
- Richard Rohr’s 365 Daily Meditation book
- Lavish – Katie Hingle’s experience company: lavishexperienceco.com
- Kripalu Center for Yoga and Health
👊 Need help applying this information to your own life?
Here are 3 ways to get started:
🎁 Free Guide: 30 Tips for Your First 30 Days – With a printable PDF checklist
Grab your copy here: https://www.soberlifeschool.com
☎️ Private Coaching: Make Sobriety Stick
https://www.makesobrietystick.com
Subscribe So You Don’t Miss New Episodes!
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or Amazon Music, or you can stream it from my website HERE.
You can also watch the interview on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/@theonedayatatimepodcast?sub_confirmation=1
Transcript
Well, Katie, thank you so much for joining me today. Hi, Arlina. I’m so grateful to be here and see you. I’ve followed you for so long. Love your podcast, love you. Oh, my goodness. So it was an honor and privilege when you asked me. I was like, “Wow, no kidding, really?” Yeah, you. Oh, my goodness. Sometimes I wonder if the people I admire don’t see themselves the way we see them.
You are amazing. Thank you, Arlina. Back at you. Thank you. And listen, I’ve known you for decades now. You’re my homegirl from my hometown, and we both moved. You just recently moved to the East Coast, is that fair? That’s right. Is that… Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Settling in. Are you in North Carolina? We’re in North Carolina now.
Wow. Yeah, from… That’s literally all the way across the country from San Jose, where we were from. 2,894 miles, but who’s counting? Yeah, approximately. [00:01:00] Listen, I wanted to talk to you because over the years that I have known you, I’ve always really just admired your s- you have, like, this very strong compass, a moral compass.
Hmm. Thank you. And I’ve… You know, you were… Is it, is it okay to say that you were at Adobe for a very long time? Yeah, sure. I, I was… Yes, totally. You were at Adobe for a very long time. You were in leadership. You had, um, such powerful influence over your community, and I just had always admired your career and the way you work.
And you and I share recovery in common. We share some entrepreneurial tendencies. And I thought, “Wow, it’ll be such a great opportunity to really just kind of ask you all the questions I’ve always wanted to ask you about.” Uh-oh. And listen, you’ve done some amazing things. Um- You were a surrogate. Mm. Did, did…
Do [00:02:00] you ha- Was, was there tw- Was it twins? Yeah, they’re twins. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, yeah. You were a surrogate for someone else. You delivered twins. You had this amazing career. You’ve also, like me, have had issues with substance use and, um, you had a relapse after a period of long-term sobriety, and you again have long-term sobriety.
Mm. So, um, I just kinda wanted… I, I just feel like there are so many really interesting things about you that we could talk about, so this is my chance to put you on the hot seat. But we’re gonna play- … something called the lightning round, which is very slow. Oh. Um, I always like to ask people, when you first started in your recovery journey, whether you started abstinence from the beginning or not, I think of beginning your recovery journey as, like, when you start questioning it or recognizing there’s a problem.
Were there any books early on that really helped you? Oh, [00:03:00] books I’m such a book nerd You know, it’s so interesting. That’s a great question, but not really so much. Like, I guess, uh I’ve, I am an avid reader. At the time that I was in the throes of all the issues that I had, I probably wasn’t reading very much.
Early- How old were you when you first started? Uh, 28. 28, okay. 28 when I first got into ch- waking up to the problems. I started- Yeah … actively, really, really actively in the disease when I was 21, but I had started way sooner than that, but that is when it turned a corner and became really bad. Yeah. Um, but I guess early on as I started, like, a spiritual path and people, I fa- started building some community around me, one of the books that people suggested was Sermon on the Mount by Emmett Fox.
Uh, that really, uh, I… It was a little bit, um, too smart for me in a way. Like, my [00:04:00] brain- Mm-hmm … was not totally clear yet, and there was a lot of really big spiritual concepts, but it did help me get some clarity on spiritual life and trying to practice some different things. And one of the women, um, that was guiding me along the way also was really into Marianne Williamson, and so I didn’t ever read…
I, I can’t remember the name of the book. I didn’t read the book, but I was getting a lot of guidance from that. Marianne Williamson wrote a few books. She did, she d- I was introduced to her, um, in 1994. She used to do a lot of lectures on A Course in Miracles. Yes, that was it. A Course in Miracles, yes. Yeah, that was really interesting.
Um, she also wrote A Woman’s Worth. Mm. Yeah, and she is misquoted all the time. She was the one who had that quote about it’s not our deepest… I, I, I’m gonna butcher this quote, but it was like, I think Morgan Freeman gets, uh, [00:05:00] gets credit for it, but it’s like, “It’s not our, uh, worst parts of us that we’re most afraid of, it’s our brilliance.”
Mm. I’m, I’m gonna have to go back and figure out what the quote is. Maybe I’ll do that in the overview. But anyway, she’s, she’s a brilliant writer and d- um, really deciphered, uh, A Course in Miracles for me, ’cause that’s a really dense text. Dense. Yeah. Somehow people were giving me these super dense things to read that I was like-
“Wait a second.” Another one was somebody said, uh, “Read this book,” and it was all about pride. I can’t… Don’t ask me the name. She, she ran a, um, a recovery bookstore and had all these different books. She’d like, “Here, read this,” and it was, like, so over my head. But I remember learning that pride, like under- starting to understand that even if I felt like a piece of garbage, which I did, I ha- had a lot of- Mm
low self-esteem challenges. Mm. That still was a form of pride. And you know, some people call it pride in reverse. And uh, I also [00:06:00] learned when I relapsed that pride goeth before the fall. So the- Yeah … there, pride can be a pretty strong current or undercurrent in my recovery and in my life and in my- Business, it’s, you know, it’s all over the place The, the issue of pride- Mm-hmm
a character defect, as- Yes … they call it. Yeah. Yeah, if it’s not right-sized, yeah. That was always a concept that confused me, the pride in reverse. Mm-hmm. That was always super confusing to me, and someone explained it to me, uh, as, uh, being the best at being the worst. That’s a good one. I have not heard that.
Yeah. I was like, “Oh, I get it,” ’cause I’m like, “Oh, I’m just so terrible, I’m worse than everybody else.” It’s, I’m the best at that. Yeah, that’s kind of funny. Yeah. Um, yeah. What about, um, we- I didn’t ask you this beforehand, so I’m happy to edit it out, but what about 12 step literature, like the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous or…?
Yeah, [00:07:00] yeah. I’m gonna stay neutral on all that for today. Okay. Yeah. We can, yeah. I forgot to sort of ask you about that beforehand, um, but that’s fine. Um, let’s talk, uh, let me just ask you a couple more questions about the lightning round, my very slow lightning round. Um, if you think about recovery over the years, do you have, like, a guiding principle?
I’ll buy you some time. You know, quotes or mantras. Uh, mine is obviously, like, one day at a time. Mm-hmm. Or, um, um, when I make a mistake, it’s like, you know, just find, you know, find the balance and recommit without self-abuse kind of a thing. Mm. Love that. Is there sort of an idea that has carried you through all these years?
So many things, actually. There’s probably a few good ones. One is that you can start your day over anytime. Mm-hmm. And that’s actually something that, as a family, I have a family of four, a husband and two now adult daughters, but, you know, [00:08:00] parenting them through everything, career and what, all the journey.
Uh, and, and literally that was something that, you know, if they were having a bad morning or w- I was or s- any, it’s like, “Oh, we can start the day over anytime.” And the kids didn’t- Mm … understand it for a long time. They were like, “That doesn’t make any sense.” And now they’re like, “That’s so, it’s so helpful,” you know?
Yeah. Um, definitely that one, and I think the other part was, is also, I don’t, is it a mantra? Is it more like a principle? It’s, it’s learning to really listen to that internal, um, knowing or practicing that internal knowing of like, “I need help.” Mm. And, and being willing to say, “I need help.” Like, and really it’s a daily, daily practice.
Yeah. And, um, sometimes it’s easier than others at, and it’s been a real growth edge for me for a long time. How is that, how is that a growth edge for you? [00:09:00] Well, I think ’cause I’m recovering from a bunch of things, Arlina. So, you know, once you got this drinking out of the way, I learned a lot about I had, you know, untreated perfectionism, untreated people-pleasing, untreated codependence probably would be a big umbrella you put across- Mm-hmm
all that. And so as I’ve continued on that journey and learning about that, I’ve found out that, um, you know, some of my survival skills as a kid were to, like, just take care of myself since I was very little. And so asking for help isn’t a natural- skill. It’s a skill I’ve had to develop, and so, you know, it’s like, like you peel the layers of the onion, and then next thing you know, I’ve got a new thing where I realize, like, ooh, I really need to ask for help for that, and I haven’t been watching my own internal warning signals about it or really paying attention to that.
It’s gotten a lot better, but it is, it still can trip me up. It’s a practice. It’s a practice. [00:10:00] Like, you, you nailed it. It’s a, it’s such a daily practice. I feel like, uh, a lot of us… Uh, I grew up with that same, um, sort of neurology of I need to figure it out. I’m on… No help a- there’s no help coming. I’m on my own.
Mm-hmm. Um, it’s survival. And so that’s… So when I’m stressed, my neurology gets triggered, and it goes to that same neural circuit, uh, circuit of I have to figure it out. Yep. 100%. One of my earliest childhood memories is, like, making a decision at three or four years old to throw my blankie away, and I had two older- At three or four?
Yeah, I think so. And it was like, I have two older siblings, my parents, a little baby sister at that point, and I was like, “I’m gonna be a big girl. I’m gonna throw away my blankie.” I threw my blankie away, and a couple hours later, it’s bedtime, and I said to everybody, “Oh, I, I made a mistake. I need my blankie, I need my blankie.”
And they’re all like, “Oh,” N- and I’m trying to go to the garbage can to take it out, and they’re all like, [00:11:00] “Oh, no, the garbage man already came.” I was like, “Oh, no, he comes tomorrow.” And they were like, “No, no, he already came. He made a special trip today. Blankie’s gone.” And I didn’t put this together until a couple months ago.
My entire life, my parents have been like, “You were always so organized. You asked us at four years old for a calendar, and you used to mark the days on your calendar.” And I was always like, “Oh, that’s so cool, ha ha ha.” I mean, it, it, it is a skill that helped me thrive in my career. Mm-hmm. Very organized.
People would always say that was a big part of my role was to bring organization to the chaos. Uh, it’s still what I do in my current business, you know. And so, um, but i- uh, all of a sudden it clicked a couple months ago. I just thought, “Oh, that was probably around the same time where they pulled the, tried to pull the wool over my head and say, ‘Oh, nope, the garbage man already came.'”
And I was like- Wow … “They’re not gonna do that anymore. I’m gonna check the days, and I’m gonna know. I’m gonna have proof of what’s going on.” [00:12:00] Survival skill. Wow, that is incredible. How did that realization came up? It was just something recent? I, it just, just, like, I don’t know. It just, prayer, meditation, uh, inventory.
I don’t know. Somehow it came to me, and I thought, “Wow, that’s crazy.” Yeah. It’s so… I don’t know what it is about being able to conne- connect the dots in hindsight. Mm. It’s like, “Oh, that’s why I’m like this.” Mm-hmm. I think so often it’s like, it, it, the question of why, I don’t know how you feel about this, I’m curious, the why, asking why can…
is a double-edged sword. I agree. Because sometimes we need to understand, like, the mechanics of things. Like, if we can make it scientific, then it’s not personal. Um, but I see a lot of people in recovery get lost in, I heard, I heard a term recently called wound worshiping. Oh. What is that? I think it’s the [00:13:00] over…
I think it’s important that we examine where, like, where the wounds come from and all that stuff, but I don’t know about you, but I have seen people go way too far and hang on to that for way too long. It’s like, I think there’s some, like, I don’t want that to be a term that people use to invalidate their own feelings.
Mm. Do you know what I mean? Like, I can- Yeah … see that could be really invalidating in some ways. Or dismissing, yeah. Right, yeah. Dismissing. Yeah. Yeah, minimizing, all that stuff. But on the other hand, it’s like, if we keep going through that circuit, that loop of why, why, why, why, why, it’s like we never get off the problem.
Like, we need to get into action. We need to experience some cause and effect, and that’s how we grow. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And so I feel like there c- there needs to be a balance. I feel like that’s why we need other people in our lives to be like, “I think we’re done with this. I think we need to keep it moving.”
Right. Keep going, right? Yes. And when a, an awareness like that, unsolicited, it’s not like I’m- [00:14:00] marinating on it, you know, too much- You were digging … but it just came, and I was like, “Whoa.” I think it, it, it, it… Who knows why the, for me, it’s God or a higher power, but like gave me that thought. Okay, great. Thank you for letting me see that.
Um, there was, you know, one is you just touched on something else. Like right now, I was reading today in a spiritual book that I read about paradoxes, and how- Mm-hmm … just being in life is a paradox. Like, we are constantly, and we and everything else around us are constantly living and dying, growing and falling apart.
Like, a- and uh, a lot of the literature that I read has a lot of that. Like, here’s the duality of this, right? So to your point, it’s good to maybe ask the why, but it’s a double-edged sword. There’s both parts of it can be true. And so on a daily basis, back to that, the mantra is like, am I heading towards growth?
Am I heading towards darkness? Am I heading towards light? Am I heading towards darkness? Like, [00:15:00] what’s, what’s my choice today going to be? Um, and sometimes it’s not the healthy path, and sometimes it is, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Do you, are you, when you say the literature, are you referring to like daily readers or- Yeah
spiritual texts or- Yeah. Yeah, all of the above. There’s- Yeah … so the past couple years, um, I, I got really turned on to this guy, Richard Rohr. Oh. And- Love him … ooh … Breathing Underwater. Breathing Underwater, but he has a- Mm-hmm … a book. It’s a daily meditation book my girls gave me for Mother’s Day a couple years, ’cause I said, “Here, give this to me for Mother’s Day.”
So they did. Um, so- Jesus said, “Ask for what you want.” Right. Yeah. Ask for what you want. And it’s a, it’s like, it’s a 365 daily meditation that just captures all kinds of stuff from his talks, his writing, and- Mm … today’s was on paradoxes. Oh, I love paradoxes. You do? I do. [00:16:00] I do. Because we’re either… It’s so funny because, um, the, it’s difficult, I think, to hold two truths at the same time.
Mm-hmm. Like, over the weekend we were just having this discussion over dinner, you know, somebody was talking about reading a book. They were traveling to Europe, and so he wanted to read a book about history of Europe, and it was like kind of a small synopsis, but it was basically, um, a series of different groups hating each other and killing each other, hating each…
And he was like kind of depressed about it, and I was like, “Well, hold up.” He’s like- … you know, “Human, human history, you know, we’re, humans are terrible. H- human- people are, people are terrible,” is basically what, you know, I think the idea that he came away with. And I was like, “Hold on.” Like, you know, Mr. Rogers taught us that whenever there’s a catastrophe, look for the people who helped.
There, there will always be people who help. And I’m a, I’m a glass half full kinda girl, like- Yeah, you are … there are a thousand things that go right every single day. A [00:17:00] thousand. There are legions of people going to work every day. I mean, traffic is a testament to that, right? People are going to work, trying to do the right thing.
People are taking care of their kids. There’s all kinds of charities that are helping people. I mean, there’s so- so it’s like there are two truths that are… both are true. Mm-hmm. And sometimes it’s challenging. And so when you- we take that to a minute, um, you know, the paradoxes in our lives, like we are imperfect, we are also improving.
Like, no, we’re not perfect. No, we’re not good enough in some ways, but we’re also… Do you know what I mean? Like, I love- Yeah … those kinds of… Do- where do you see the other paradoxes in your life? Hmm. Well, one w- one, here’s a great one. Like, I thought I was gonna retire three years ago. Surprise. Did you get bored?
Surprise. I got re-energized and inspired. Oh. But the paradox is how do I live [00:18:00] this life- Yeah … which is about, uh, you know, holding space to be relaxed and take care of myself and be of service to others and my family and my husband, and I, I was a, another one of my addictions was workaholism. Oh. You know, I, I had- My kinda girl
you know what I’m talking about. Love it. Right? I had that. And so, uh- You were so good at it, too. It ser- it, another survival skill. It totally served me for a long time. Yeah. Until it didn’t. And so- Yeah … there, for me, there’s this, like, daily, mm, you know, balancing act of, like, feeling into the paradox of, like, am I being of service and maximal use to God and my fellows?
Yeah. Or am I tipping into workaholism, codependence, overcaretaking? Like, there’s, you know, there’s just these little lines that I can cross that are, uh, there’s no way to do it until you feel into it and go, “Oops, I slipped over again. Let me come back to [00:19:00] center. Oops, I’m going the other way. Let me come back to center.”
How do you know when you tipped over? Is it a s- like, a s- a feeling experience, or do people call you out on it? No, probably not too many people call… Maybe some people call me out on it. But the feeling part of it, um, you mentioned this relapse I had a while ago. One of the things, and I was kind of figuring all that out again, was, um, somebody was helping me see that there’s the definition of self-will is, uh, the, there…
I haven’t found any evidence of this anywhere. I’ve searched it all up, but it doesn’t matter ’cause it changed things for me. Mm-hmm. They said the root word is o- in Greek is onwela, and that it means of boiling water. And so when I am trying to run the show again, if I notice if I have that feeling of boiling water inside of me, that’s usually a pretty good [00:20:00] indication that I’ve tipped over into over-functioning, doing the, running the show, thinking I have all the answers, and not really pausing and, like, asking for the right thought or action, asking for direction, asking for peace in my heart before I make a decision, asking for acceptance, serenity.
All those things that are principle or spiritual principle that I’ve been guided to over the years. Mm-hmm. I love that imagery Did that answer the question? Okay, yeah … that is so good, the idea of boiling water, ’cause as soon as you said that I was like, “Yeah, I know that feeling.” Mm. Mm-hmm. You know, it’s, it’s a…
I don’t know, the imagery just really struck me. I’m gonna have to use that too, but it’s definitely a felt sense of experience for me too. Mm-hmm. It leads to, uh, my workaholism always leads me to this place of discouragement, frustration. Oh, yeah. And then I start recognizing, oh, I think I’m all alone. I think I have to figure it out.
Like, figure it out is not a slogan for a reason.[00:21:00]
Where is mine, is usually… It’s like- Okay. Yes, thank you. That just triggered something in me too, like, or connected. It was like when I… My story is that I have to do it all. Yeah. If, if I’m like, “I’m back doing it all again,” and that is totally not, that is not a safe place for Katie to be at all. Zero. It is time to, like, pause and either ask for help, do a- Yeah
you know. I’ll use the serenity prayer as, like, a written tool where I’ll say, “Okay, God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I can’t change.” What are those things? Write ’em out. Okay, God, give me the wi- uh, courage to change the things I can. What are the things that I can change? Write ’em all out. Okay, God, thank you for that wisdom.
Take a deep breath. And then if I start focusing on those things on list number one of stuff I’m trying to change that I can’t, I’m like, wait a second. Ig- you know, drop that. Go back to your other list. What’s the stuff you can do? [00:22:00] And go do those things. Ask for help. Go take a bath. Take a walk. Do your own little project that you’ve gotta work on, that you’ve been procrastinating ’cause you’re blaming…
I’m, I’m saying you, but me. It’s me. I, I hear you. Yeah. I’m, I’m, I’m blaming somebody else in my life- Yeah … where I feel uncomfortable right now, you know? Those things. Blame is a great sort of guidepost along the path I heard somebody say that power follows the blame finger. What? Yeah, like, w- w- you know, if in a, you know, and y- you also hear, like, if you’re, you know, pointing your finger at someone, you have three fingers pointing back at you.
Like, um, if you spot it, you got it. But power f- following the blame finger, any time I’m blaming somebody else for how I feel, then they have the power and I don’t. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And there’s something- Ooh … I don’t know if it’s, like, a pride thing, or some- the, [00:23:00] I don’t like that. Well, I’m not giving away my power.
I’m not like, “No, no, no, no.” Yeah, let me take that back. Let me take that back. Where can I take responsibility? I think the th- the part, I… And I love the how you’re using that practice. I think where I sometimes, you know, in all humility, I’ve been like, “Oh, man, I don’t feel like I have the courage to- Oh
change the things I can.” And that’s, you know, about fear and, you know, that’s what the higher power is for. Mm-hmm. Um, sh- Yeah … I, I love that. Um, I told you this was gonna be slow. That’s all right. Do you have a regular self-care practice, whether it’s daily, weekly, maybe you go to retreats annually? What does your self-care practice look like?
Yeah. Yeah. Thanks. Yeah, so daily is definitely mandatory for me. I used to slide on that, and, uh, m- then I learned that I can’t. It doesn’t, it doesn’t work. Right. So 95% of the time. It’s not perfect, but 95% of the time I do wake up, I’m usually the first one in the household that wakes up, [00:24:00] and I appreciate that in a lot of ways ’cause I get to have quiet time, and I do make my coffee and let the dog out and all that stuff.
But I, I spend, you know, 20 to 30 minutes by myself, read daily readers, um, take a look at the d- past day and see how did I do yesterday on areas that are important to me to stay clear in, make sure I’m not choking off any sunlight of the spirit. Take a look at that, see if I have to share anything with somebody else to get that cleared out.
Uh- Like resentments or challenges or- Yeah, or dishonesty or- Mm-hmm … selfishness. Yeah, those things. My favorite things. Um, yeah. Or, or over-caring, uh, caretaking for others. Like, overdoing it for somebody else when they could do it themselves. Mm-hmm. That’s a big one, which is a form of dishonesty, honestly, where it’s like I think I’m being helpful, but really I’m harming somebody by doing their job emotionally or physically, whatever.
So then I sit quietly and pray about it, pray for other [00:25:00] people, ask God for guidance, and yeah, and then I go about my day. I love trying to go on silent retreat twice a year. I have to find out where I’m gonna do that out here, ’cause I was going down to Big Sur to a Benedictine monastery twice a year for many years.
Mm. And it’s not a guided retreat or anything. It’s just like you go, it’s like you’re basically- Mm … in your cell, your mon- monk cell by yourself for however many nights and days, and it’s just quiet. And, uh, you know, 20, 30 years ago if you asked me if I would be doing that, I would be like, “Hell no.” And then it became part of my spiritual practice, and silence is really important to me.
It really helps me fill up. Are, are there, um, guidelines, like no cell phones, no books, no music? For that… Yeah, for that place it’s, [00:26:00] um, you really don’t wanna make any noise ’cause everybody else around you is in silence too. Your cell phones, it’s two miles up the mountain, and literally your cell phone doesn’t work up there.
You can’t get tech- you can’t plug in and… But you can do whatever else you want. Paint, draw- Oh, okay … take h- hikes. There’s a little bit of… You, there’s some places where you can talk, and they do have s- services five times a day where there’s chanting and singing. So you can join in on that if you’d like.
But it’s just peaceful looking out over the Pacific. That sounds amazing. Um, is it like a three-day, five-day? You, they have a… If you’re g- um, if you are going to stay there, it’s a minimum of two nights and a maximum of seven. Okay. But it’s all self-guided. There’s no… They do retreats too, but I haven’t done one of those.
I wonder if Kripalu’s within a reasonable distance from you, ’cause I believe they do that there too. Oh, okay. I’ll have to find out. I will send you a link [00:27:00] later, yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Um, what’s one thing you wish you would’ve known when you first started your journey?
Wow Whether it’s sobriety, recovery, however you wanna think of that Hmm. What is one thing I would know, wish I had known? You know, I think I’ve learned it, but I didn’t know it at first that, uh, it’s not linear What does that mean? It means like it’s not as though if I do A, B is gonna happen, and then C, and D, and E, and F.
Like, it’s not a path. It’s not a linear path. It- my experience of this change in my life is that I arrived, I had no clue what was gonna happen, although my whole life I thought if I do the right things, the right next things are gonna happen, and all of a sudden it was like, hello, [00:28:00] nope, that is just a big old idea that has to be smashed.
And so when- once I realized it and stopped fighting it, ceased fighting it, my life got so much better. Yeah. You know? So early on I think if I had just known, like, sh- you’re in for a ride and enjoy it, buckle in and stop fighting everything, and just, like, follow the lead, but don’t- Mm … don’t think you have to have all the answers, ’cause you don’t.
What a gift Yeah, that really speaks to me of trust and surrender to the process. Mm-hmm. It is, it is a series of, you know, starts and what is that, fits and starts, um, type of idea where it’s two steps forward, three steps back sometimes. Mm-hmm. It’s, uh… And I love that, you know, it’s perfectionism, it’s workaholic, and it’s like, oh, if I just do all these things I can, quote unquote, “control my experience” and get the exact outcome I [00:29:00] want.
And life is like, “Nice try.” Yeah. Um- And then my, my story’s, “And then I’ll be able to relax.” It’s like, no. Ah. Guess what? You could relax in the journey, not … How about take a deep breath and trust along the way? Oh, that’s a good idea. That’s a really good point, actually, is the idea that we get so wrapped up in if this, then that.
Mm-hmm. If I have the money, if I have the relationship, if I have the whatever, then I’ll be okay. Mm-hmm. And the cosmic joke is you were always okay.
Oh, man. It’s like- Man … that’s what I wish I would’ve known. Oh, that’s a good one. I g- That’s a good, really- Yeah. I just, that was just- Mm … off the cuff. I didn’t, uh, plan that. Um, okay, so that, that seems like a good place to stop for the, uh, lightning round. Um- And I’m so curi- I’m always [00:30:00] curious as to, like, how did we get here, right?
Um, and I wanna know about childhood stuff, like what did your dad do? Si- it sounds like you had a lot of siblings. Um, ’cause I feel like whatever happened to us in childhood sort of sets the stage for adulthood. So- Mm-hmm … uh, share as much or as little as you want about that part. Oh, that’s so fun. You know, I’m so grateful.
I have two amazing parents, still alive, I’m very grateful, uh, and three siblings, and I’m the third of the four. So there’s a 10 age, year age gap between the top and bottom, and, you know, so there’s like those two are super close and we two are super close. Uh, but we’re all now as adults really close. And, uh, you know, we lived in one town for 10 years, another town for 10 years.
While I was away in college my parents… I got a chance to study abroad, and my parents sold all my stuff while I was gone, ’cause they moved and they got rid of everything. Oh my God. That was [00:31:00] a little- Must’ve been traumatic. That was a little painful. Um- And my dad was a judge in our little town. And my mom- All right, that says a lot actually.
Uh-huh, yep, and my mom was a high school teacher, and we- they both had really bad alcoholic dads. Mm. They, my parents didn’t really, I don’t… not really have a problem with drinking as far as I’m aware, but we were raised with the understanding of what alcoholism looked like, and the fact that there was a really high chance that we could have it because it, they, you know, they, what they taught us is it’s genetic, and here’s what it looks like, and here’s what, and it’s a family issue.
And so you better be careful is what they said. Yeah. Uh, we, you know, I g- I could go on and on about how great our life was. We had a great life. I’m very, very, very fortunate, and yet lots of stories of things that were painful. You know, I told the one about the blankie, [00:32:00] and, um, I don’t probably wanna go into it too much, but it was definitely a, you know, a, another good example would be first day of kindergarten, I showed up at s- school and I met this girl, and she literally was my hostage for 12 years.
Like we were each other’s hostage for 12 years. Like, best friends, did everything together. Wow. Uh, and in her family there was active alcoholism, and chaos, and craziness, and I would go spend weeks at her house. My parents would leave me there for weeks. And, um, I think my mom was just trying to, my, both my parents worked, and they were trying to have four kids and all that stuff, and so she was happy to have one of her kids off with somebody else.
Right. And I would come home and just cry, and she’d be like, “What’s wrong with you? If you don’t knock it off, I’m not gonna let you go over there.” Not like, “Hey, is something going on that you’re not feeling comfortable with?” And so I never really put it all together until I got older and cleared my head a [00:33:00] little bit of, like, there was chaos over there and not at my house.
So- Mm. Um, but I also kinda thrived in it. I kinda loved it. I, I continued to choose people like that in my life for a long time. So yeah, so that was my childhood. It was pretty good. And so I do think that by the time, you know, my drinking really took off in my 20s, um, I didn’t go as far as I think a lot of people go.
Mm. And my parents were, and my siblings were saying, like, “We’re worried about you. We’re worried about you. We’re worried about you.” And they’d point out specific things, and I’d blow it off until finally that day ar- arrived when I said, “Yeah, um, yeah, they’re right. There’s something wrong, and I need help.”
So- Why, why do you think you, why do you think you started drinking? Uh, to fi- well, the very first time I had a drink, I was eight, and that friend’s family, we were, we were s- snow [00:34:00] camping, and it was freezing cold. And all the kids were freezing, and the mom gave us all a shot of blackberry brandy. So… Yeah, that’s the- Uh
first thing I would think of to do. So that was… So I, so I kind of always wanted to, and- How was your experience? Were you like, “Oh my God, this is amazing”? Was it one of those? Yeah. I was like, “Ooh, that felt really good.” Yeah 16 is when I started really dabbling in it more, and part of it was, um, I was straight A student.
I was so… I was a, I was valedictorian of my class. Like, I was perfect on the outside. Uh-huh. Eh, all the parents loved me ’cause I was such a good kid, but there was this part of me that was like, “I’m gonna sneak around and I’m gonna get away with this stuff,” and you know, so that subversive sneaking thing- Mm
was part of my, my journey. [00:35:00] Yeah. So 16 it starts taking off a little bit, and you kinda mentioned at the end people were pointing things out to you. I think what’s so interesting about sort of, you know, what’s between that kind of a sandwich is, you know, we have a, a really good time, right? It’s fun, and then we start experiencing some consequences, and at the end it’s kinda all consequences.
What kinds of consequences were you experiencing that you were like, “Maybe they’re right. Maybe this is a problem for me.” Yeah. Well, I mean, just early at that 16-year-old phase I did get busted one time for coming home drunk, and thought I was doing a really good job of sneaking around. I got grounded for a month.
Mm. So that was pretty early. Wow. And then that didn’t stop it, though. I just started sneaking even better. Yeah. Towards the end it was, um… I had quit a four-year company because the guy I thought I was, he was gonna [00:36:00] marry me broke up, we broke up when I was insane one night, insanely drunk. We broke up and I still don’t know what happened that night.
Um- Lots of blacking out? Kind of crazy, blacking out. And then fast-forward six month- and then I quit that job, moved, slept on a friend’s couch, uh, found a horrible, horrible job where I was being sexually harassed for six months. Um, the partying was just continuing, continuing, continuing. I was un, you know, away from my parents and my siblings watching me.
Mm-hmm. And then, um, I kept saying every weekend I’d be like, “Oh my gosh, I can’t believe what happened this weekend. Why did I do all this stuff? What, I don’t remember what happened.” And finally, uh, and every weekend I’d say, “I’m not gonna do it next weekend.” And finally one day it happened again. I woke up and I was not happy about what I was putting together, and I was like, “There’s something wrong.
I can’t not do this.” [00:37:00] And so I called somebody for help. I like how you say, “I don’t like what I’m putting together.” I don’t know about you. I, like, woke up in strange places with strange people. I was like, “Oh my God.” Yeah. Yeah, that, and then having to piece things together the next day is such a painful experience.
Mm-hmm. It’s so, so sh- shame inducing and- Mm … um, then I would come to conclusions and beliefs about who I was as a person and my self-esteem. It grew to, like, self-hatred. Did you… Does that all sound familiar? Uh, so yes. Uh, you know, I would go to sleep at 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning, and then come to at 6:00 o’clock in the morning with a mad monkey mind just beating me up about what happened, or trying to figure it all out.
And yeah, and it was just, I’d call one friend, and she’d co-sign it all, and, “Oh, you had fun. You didn’t [00:38:00] hurt anybody,” until that day. It was like I didn’t call her, I called somebody else. Yeah. ‘Cause I, it’s, but the, then, you know, what’s the good news is that that guilt, shame, and remorse isn’t there anymore.
Yeah I know where I put my head down the night before. Yeah. Yeah. We’re not creating new drama. So when you finally… What, was there, like, an event? You know how some people have, like, a defining moment, a moment of clarity where you’re like, “Yeah, I need to get help.” Did you have one of those experiences, or did you just go straight to seeking some sort of help?
What did that look like for you? Yeah. It was somebody had called me three weeks prior and said, “I’m worried about you.” And then that morning when I g- that, I called somebody else. That person w- didn’t cosign, said, “You’re sick. You’re really, really sick.” Hung up the phone on me. Wow. And I was like, “Oh, I am sick.
There’s something wrong.” And then I called that person who had suggested I might need help. Um, yeah. And that was [00:39:00] the start. That was the turning point of me being, like, open to trying something new and not really understanding that there was a spiritual path out there that could change my whole life.
But I was- Yeah … just on fire for I can’t do what I’m doing anymore. I don’t know what, how to do it differently, but I’ll trust some other people to show me the way. So that was a, um… Is it okay to say that it was like a peer support community? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I’d say I found some community, yeah. Yeah, some community and some people who are, um, you know, able to share some self-reflection processes.
Man, those, um, those self-reflection exercises for me was so revealing because I actually, I wanted to know what was wrong. I really did. Mm-hmm. Right. And I didn’t have any tools. I, I was, like, completely [00:40:00] self-centered but had no way of doing self-examination, which seems like a paradox, right? That’s a bit of a paradox.
Yeah. Yeah. So I met a bunch of people like you that were like, “Oh, here’s a… You, you can do these things, do these writing exercise, and, you know, you can sort it all out.” Mm-hmm. So do you, you had a similar experience where you’re able to sort it all out? Similar experience, lots of sorting it out. And, and what I love about it, too, is it’s been a 29-year journey since then.
And, uh- It hasn’t stopped. Yeah. Like, the sorting it out, the new thing to sort out. Um It’s a practice. It’s a practice. Yeah. Yeah, there is really no arrival destination. Mm-mm. Nope. No. ‘Cause there’s the end of the day. You take a nap. Uh, start over. Yeah. Um, so you… I, I did wanna quickly touch on, you said you had a period of abstinence.[00:41:00]
Mm-hmm. And had a relapse. What r- what led up to that? Oh my gosh, Arlina, it was brutal. Uh- Yeah … you know, I was… So it was three years in the making. Okay. I had a lot of pride, we were talking about pride at the beginning, in that I had stayed recovered for so long, and I had this great career, and I was traveling all the time.
Super high achiever. Big high achieving, all that stuff. And, um, you know, support my husband in his career, and changing his career, and him going back to school. And but it, during a three-year period, what ended up happening is that I was blaming him that I had to work so hard. Mm. And I felt like a lot of pressure.
And, um, instead of slowing down and saying, “Wait a second,” like, “What are the choices that I’m making to contribute to this?” Mm. I was blaming him, and I had a lot of self-pity about that. And then I was traveling a lot with people that [00:42:00] I worked with, and they all had stay-at-home wives, and I didn’t really have a stay-at-home husband.
And they drank with impunity. And didn’t really have, from what I could see, any consequences from that. And it just, over the course of a couple years, it just all that combined grew and grew, and I wasn’t really being honest with people in my spiritual community that I was in a lot of emotional pain. Mm.
So, you know, I was still involved in the community and everything, but I just… And I had a belief in God, you know, and was doing the things to take, stay connected to that belief, but I was very much in self-will and self-pity until finally one day that thought of taking a drink just wouldn’t leave me alone, and I finally said, “Ah, I’ll just have one drink.
It’s no big deal.” And it really, honestly, it wasn’t a big deal. Uh, I had two, two drinks. The first one typically isn’t. Right? I mean, I’ve heard different [00:43:00] stories over the years. Yeah, yeah. But that one was no big deal. But a couple months later… And I finally got honest about it, and then again a couple months later I went on another business trip and somebody was really bugging me and annoying me, and I got really resentful.
And by the last day of that trip, I was like, “Ah.” And I, instead of going up to my room, I hung out at the bar with everybody, and somebody was like, “Ah, just have a drink.” And I was like, “Ah, fine. I’ll have it.” And then that bottom, that night, that experience was almost as bad as my first time making a decision to stop drinking.
So, and I didn’t get honest about that for a while again too. I kept it a secret for a while. So once I came clean on that, and I’ll finish with this, is that the, um, made a decision as to really prioritize that self-care and really learn, like, what was going on and deal with it. That changed my marriage.
It changed my relationship with myself. Mm. It changed my [00:44:00] relationship with my work. One of the things that somebody said, I, ’cause I would say, “Well, nobody knew I was drinking,” you know? Nobody knew. I was away. It didn’t harm my family, all that stuff. I was crazy for three years. Uh, but the person said, “You know what?
Uh, if you tell yourself nobody knows, you’re calling yourself a nobody.” Oh. “You’re, you’re a somebody, and you knew.” That is so good So strong Yeah. That’s one of those kind of a slap in the face, like, oh my gosh. It kind of breaks the denial. Um, what was it like having to tell Dan? It was hard. Yeah. It was really hard.
And, uh, yeah, we had said when we got married that if either of us drank or used again, then deal breaker, done. And so I was… But there was a part of me that wanted to get divorced, ’cause I was like, “I’m so over this marriage right now.” Mm. Yeah. Um, [00:45:00] and then there was a big part of me that didn’t want that, and thankfully he said, “Do what you need to do.
Take care of yourself. I’ll take care of me and the kids. Prioritize yourself. I don’t know what that looks like. Whatever that is, go figure it out. I’ll be here, and we can… No major decisions for a while.” Wow. Yeah. Yeah, he’s a good man. He’s a good man. The idea of, you know, these resentments that grow, it c- they can- they’re just so insidious.
Mm-hmm. Like, you don’t… It’s so funny, because I feel like it h- like the path off the beam happens in such subtle increments that we don’t really notice it, and it’s just tick, tick, tick. And then the i- ideas are interesting, because they, they tend to grow. You know, the ideas, they either gr- like, we’re either growing or, like we’re evolving or devolving, right?
And I feel like resentment is sort of at the root of [00:46:00] the devolving process. Mm-hmm. Like, it starts to unravel everything. Yep. And, and it h- and I think it, it can happen so subtly that we don’t, that we don’t recognize it. 100%. That’s why I think it’s a daily prac- uh, not- Yeah … not I think it is. That is why I have a daily practice now, that I thought I was doing before that whole thing went down.
Yeah. But I wasn’t actually literally every day taking a look and saying, “Where was I dishonest yesterday?” And dishonesty doesn’t mean, like, lying to somebody necessarily. It, it, it could look like I, I abandoned myself in that moment, and I wasn’t honest with me, God, and another person about it. I walked away from the truth.
Yeah. Unconsciously or consciously. And that then can fuel resentment and self-pity, and that is that boiling water, the edge of the table that I, if I’m paying attention, I can feel when I’m heading in the wrong [00:47:00] direction. Yeah. I’m devolving, not evolving. Yeah. You know, I’m too afraid to speak the truth, so I walk away from myself, and then I get pissed off at somebody because they’re not doing what I think they should do, you know?
Yeah, I mean, it’s so interesting. It’s like the s- the stress, I would imagine, you know, the stress of when your partner goes back to school and, like, the, um, responsibility or power differential shifts. Mm. That, um, it’s stressful. And what do we do when we’re stressed out? We go back to our old survival circuits of it’s all on me, nobody can help.
Perfectionism, people like I, I, yeah, I see it. And it’s, um, I loved how you talked about it was the self-abandonment and like we don’t even realize it’s happening. Nope. Didn’t have a clue. And honestly, four years ago I was back in that same emotional place again, despite the work I was still doing. Mm-hmm.
And that was when I [00:48:00] finally turned and faced it like, “There’s something else I need to deal with here.” I didn’t wanna drink at that point. It wasn’t, drinking wasn’t the thing coming up. It was like, “Somebody needs to die.” “Either I have to die or he has to die, but one of us is going.” It was Ryan or homicide, yeah.
It was really, it was a, just the crazy thinking, right? And I was like, but thankfully I had enough experience to go, “There’s something wrong. I need more help.” Okay. “I’m gonna ask for help.” And that was when I started dealing with the untreated co-dependence of like, um- You know, people pleasing, trying to take care of over-functioning, to take care of everything that nobody’s asking me to do, but it’s…
And that’s when I learned to name it as those are survival mechanisms, coping mechanisms- Yeah … that I learned, and they, they’re up again. And so what, how do I take care of them? Yeah, and you didn’t have to burn your, burn it down to the ground. No, no. Yeah. So lucky. In fact, it just changed, it made my relationship with God, myself, and other human [00:49:00] beings a whole new healthy level.
Not perfect, still struggle. Yeah. But as my little sister would say, I love my little sister, I love all my siblings, but she, we’ve all had our own paths of finding things out about ourselves and growing, and one of the things that she says as a family of the sib- four siblings, she’ll say, “You know what?
We’ve all had a lot of collateral growth.” And- … just love that concept, right? It’s not collateral damage. Yeah. We have collateral growth. Each of us does our own work. We continue to grow- Yeah … share, and practice new skills, and then the other ones have to shift and adjust, and it’s collateral growth. Yeah.
Yeah, I love that. I would imagine you’re having a lot of collateral growth. Y- you know, moving in recovery can be really challenging. And, um, you know, we moved seven years ago, it’ll be seven years in June, and, um, w- what’s that process been like for you? It’s, you haven’t, it hasn’t been that long. You guys [00:50:00] just moved not that long ago, right?
Yeah, yeah, six weeks, seven weeks- Six weeks … something like that. Yeah. That we arrived here. Yeah, same way. Yeah. Yeah. Are you in the honeymoon phase still, or has- Uh, no. No. No. No. How do you take care of yourself in the pha- like, they say that death and moving, divorce are all tied for some of the most challenging experiences in life.
Yeah. Is that, is that fair for you right now? Yeah, yeah. You know what? It’s so, so I’ll, I think that the, the, where we’re at in this whole journey is it wasn’t a fast decision. It’s been three years in the making. Mm-hmm. A lot of prayer and meditation, a lot of seeking God and God’s will, and we are 100% positive we are supposed to be right where we are, and I could tell you so many stories that, like, are, like, big flashing lights of, like, you’re doing the right thing.
So with that as the umbrella context, it really helped make it easier. [00:51:00] Um, and we did prioritize checking out our community before we got here in a bunch of different levels, church, other spiritual groups that we’re a part of, to make sure it was a good fit, ’cause that’s a foundational element for us and our family.
That’s huge. And yeah, and then we just slowed down and took the time to- pack our house and get rid of stuff, and 351 boxes that we counted. You counted the boxes? I, I actually had an organizer. Well, we had to- I did … for the, the moving company. Oh, right It’s a long story. But we had an organizer come over and help us get them all organized and measured, and this whole thing, so it was 351 boxes plus all the furniture and stuff.
Yeah. That, yeah, that’s intense. Moving, moving, um, yeah, moving out of state was a whole nother animal as opposed to just, like, moving to a different town. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. And you went all the way across the country, so that’s pretty intense. Yeah, but we have a beautiful country. You c- we got to s- we slowed down and took our time to see the [00:52:00] country- Oh
as we went across, and we were like, you know what? In this day and age when there’s a lot of stress between different people, and there’s all that, wow, we were like, “Nope, everywhere you go, people are amazing.” Yeah. If you just, like, don’t focus on some of the bigger issues that people can get stuck on, and just talk to people humanly.
Right. Oh, my gosh, we were like, “We live in the best country.” It’s an amazing country. Um- Yeah … it was, that was a really good experience. We had a lot of fun. Yeah. And, uh, and then I will say there’s the grief. Like, two week- our furniture was two weeks late, so we camped in our house for two weeks. R- and then it was kind of fun, and then the furniture and all the 351 boxes arrived, and I cried for, like, a week ’cause I was like, “Holy moly, it’s not my house.
I don’t know where anything goes.” Hmm. “I don’t think we have enough room,” blah, blah, blah. So there was some grief that came up. I miss my girls a lot. They’re both still in California. Oh, wow, so you guys are empty nesters now. [00:53:00] Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It’s a lot of fun. We are, too. It’s weird, yeah. It’s a little bit of an adjustment.
I wouldn’t have it any other way now. I love my kids. For the longest time I was like, “I like my kids. I don’t want my kids to leave.” But now that they’re, they both, one’s in Tokyo studying abroad- Mm … and the other one is downtown, um, it’s like, wow, my house is clean and, uh, there’s leftovers. My food, my refrigerator’s not full.
Yeah, it’s funny. It’s funny. Um, so let me shift gears just a little bit because you’ve been, um, so it sounds like you, you thought you were gonna retire four years ago. About a year into that you’re like, “Let’s move.” Is that … Yeah. Yeah. And then you started a business. Yeah. What’s the name of your business?
It’s called Lavish, an experience company. Love that. Everything- I love it too … yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so that’s very, like, you’re used to running organizations. You have a [00:54:00] depth of knowledge in business. What has it been like to start your own, like, legit company? Oh my gosh, what a difference. I wanna give a tiny bit of backstory, right?
Because I did, I left this big, high-tech- Corporate, yeah … career. Had, you know. We were in Silicon Valley, yeah. Mm-hmm. Did a lot of stuff together too. Uh- You were in Los Gatos. Yeah. Well, we had a lot of fun. Yeah. Uh, and then I took some time off, and then I started working in a little jewelry store part-time, and I got to s- for fun, and I got to see how hard it is for a small business to, like, market itself and- Yeah
get new clients and all that, and run it and everything. And I was like, “Wow, this is hard.” But it was through being there and having the experience of my husband gifting me an experience actually when I was 30, well, we were dating, and, uh, he put together- Couple years in … yeah, he put together- … this whole experience for me that was a complete, like, tr- scavenger hunt through Los [00:55:00] Gatos.
Oh, wow. That every step of the way I thought that was the present, and then no, they were like, “Now go to this place.” It was just, it was such a great journey, and I was like, “This guy’s so romantic. I hope he proposes to me.” And so one of the most memorable things, and then I saw high-tech friends, guys, women that I’d be on business trips with, and they’d be like, “Oh my gosh, I need to run out and get my wife an anniversary gift for tomorrow.”
Like, you know, s- and me too, by the way. I’d be on a business trip, I’m like, “Oh my gosh, it’s Christmas in, like, three days.” You know, better hurry up and buy something quick. Right. It was not, uh, ’cause you’re so challenged all the time. Yeah. So a couple years ago, I had this idea from working in the store of, like, putting these experiences together, and I actually thought my boss should go do it, and she thought I should go do it.
And one thing led to another, and I, I launched Lavish. You’re like, “Fine, I’ll do it.” That’s great. A- and I [00:56:00] feel like the principles that help us to manage our emotions in other areas, all the things that we learn about behavior change and self-care and, and all, uh, you know, reprogramming our nervous system and, and all that stuff really translate well to business.
Hmm. Because at the end of the day, like, what you’re talking about is an emotional experience. Mm-hmm. Right? Like, recovery is an emotional experience. Like, you can read all the books, but until you have your own experience, it doesn’t really mean the same thing. Mm-hmm. So I, I love this idea that you’re doing your own business.
How are you… Um, I love the concept of the business. How are you managing your own experiences through– I mean, entrepreneurship is a roller coaster. You bet. Lots of ups, lots of downs. There’s, you know, you get, we get excited about things, and then there’s, like, discouragement and disappointment after challenges or, like, the results aren’t coming.
Like, how do you manage all that? [00:57:00] Yeah, I think it’s, your- to your point, I think it’s the same principles I’ve learned over the years. So there is the… Well, first of all, I’m pretty organized, so that does help. Um, but from an, uh, you know, just learning how to run a business, marketing as an example. I ha- I really truly didn’t know about advertising, even though I worked in a company that did stuff around that, right?
And so I invested in advertising and a couple specific magazines, other things, and zero, not one lead. So- … you know, and I was like, “Oh my gosh, what’d I do wrong? Oh, no.” And I was kinda doing this for fun, and then now I’m investing money into it that’s not getting me any return. So that example of that is that the principle of, okay, I tried it, not to beat myself up or get paralyzed in fear, but is say, okay, acceptance.
What did I learn? What am I gonna do [00:58:00] about it? Make a, make a change for next time. Get a clear yes and no based on learning from those experiences. Um, yeah, so that’s just one example of applying the, the principles Yeah, that’s a… I, and I feel like the, the self-care, care practice that you have is something that’ll, can sustain your nervous system through those.
You know, the highs can be just as dysregulating as the lows. Yeah. Yeah. You know? Right. Thinking, “I did it.” It’s, you know, it’s never done. No. And I, like, I did a big campaign a couple weekend, weeks ago, an email campaign, and had great results from it. I mean, like, great results from this email campaign- Yes
that I did, and yet, I, and so then I’m like, “Woo-hoo,” for, like, 24 hours, very pumped up about it, and then it got a little deflated as certain things started happening afterwards- … you know? Yeah. Wowso. Yeah. Yeah. It, [00:59:00] it’s such a rollercoaster, and I, and I love that you have, like, these guiding principles of, you know, being of service and, um, these practices rooted in sort of higher principles so that we don’t get too lost in the minutiae and, you know, recognizing that, you know, we still need, we still need help at every, at every stage.
I was just asking a community of people today, like, I’m having problems upli- loading my new LinkedIn banner. It won’t save. Mm. I’ve done everything I’m supposed to do. So I’m asking people, “Can you help?” Like, “Is there anybody out there that can, you know, troubleshoot this for me? I’ve tried AI, I’ve tried everything.”
And so one person said, “Yeah, try this and this. If it doesn’t work, I can lend you my executive assistant.” I was like, “Thank you.” Did you get it fixed? Not yet, ’cause I’m- … kind of on other things, but I will. I will. That’s on the agenda. But, um- Yeah … yeah. But I, I kind of wanted to go back to something which is explaining a little bit about [01:00:00] the, the genesis of Lavish.
Like, it is really tied to these principles of recovery. So, um- Mm … you know, what I believe that Lavish brings is an emotional concierge service for people who have, they deeply care but they don’t have the bandwidth to execute on these meaningful moments. Mm. And so we curate that for them so that they can show up fully present in their relationships.
And the principles behind that are things like I don’t start with logistics, I start with feelings. Oh, yeah. So whenever somebody’s coming to me for an experience, I ask, like, “How do you want that person to feel? How do you wanna feel?” I always start with that. And one of the things that that ties to this life journey I’ve been on with recovery is that I’ve learned that, like, it’s those feelings inside of me that are the guideposts.
Yeah. So I try and give that space to other people. Like, how do you wanna feel? How do you want them to feel? I really have learned to be a deep [01:01:00] listener over years too, again, thanks to recovery. So I listen- Mm … and then I propose based on that. Maybe not what they’re saying or thinking on the surface, but, like- Yeah
what’s underneath it. Um- The other thing I’ll finish with that idea too from just, like, the principles is that I, I have learned that it’s not a, you know, problems don’t come from, often from, like, a dramatic thing. It, a lot of times it’s, like, little by slow that all of a sudden you’ve got a disconnect in or disharmony in a relationship.
Mm. Just not paying attention to something, forgetting a birthday, or, you know, not having the time to be thoughtful about it or, you know, not taking care of some of those details. And my goal is to help my clients not have to worry about that part. They can just hand that off to me so that they can show up truly the way they want to in that relationship in a caring way.
And [01:02:00] hopefully- That is so important … prevent some of that erosion. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. No, that’s really important. I, I’ll, I’ll definitely leave links to your LinkedIn once it’s corrected. I’ll let you know. Yeah. Today or tomorrow. Yeah, you got a, you got a couple weeks before this g- this goes out, but, um, yeah, we’ll leave links to all that.
No, I just, I so appreciate your time. I, I really admire you. Just, you, you’re just one of those people that are just such a quality person, so thoughtful, and I really have seen you stick to your integrity and your values over the years, and you really do walk the talk. So I’m, I’m glad we got- Oh … a chance to sit down.
Thanks for letting me grill you a little bit about, you know, how you think and, and all this stuff. Uh, I really feel like it was super helpful. Thank you so much, Arlina. I just appreciate you and the time. And, uh, back at you, walking the walk, walking the talk. Yeah. Thanks. Thanks, Arlina. Thanks. Yeah. We’ll talk soon.
All right. Thanks so much. All [01:03:00] right.
Leave a Reply