What if the thing keeping you from lasting sobriety isn’t a lack of willpower, but a program that doesn’t leave room for all of who you are?
That question sits at the center of my conversation with Sunshine Witchski, founder of Sober Witch Life. Sunshine has been sober since October 9, 2019, and over the past six and a half years she’s built a recovery community for people who identify as witches, empaths, and intuitives in addition to being in recovery. She’s also the host of a growing recovery coven, a space that didn’t exist when she needed it most.
Growing Up in the Storm
Sunshine’s home was an alcoholic household in every sense: a father who drank every day, a mother who enabled it, an older brother whose bullying left permanent marks, and very few joyful memories inside those walls. “You’re fat and ugly and nobody is ever gonna love you,” her brother told her, words that followed her for decades. By eight years old, she was already finishing her father’s half-drunk cocktails.
The Rock Bottom in Costa Rica
Years of close calls with police, blackout drinking, and a marriage she eventually left didn’t fully break the cycle. What did was her 40th birthday trip to Costa Rica in 2019. Her partner brought duty-free liquor onto a vacation she’d planned for over a year, and by the end of a devastating day, she says, “I was a grade A, bonafide see-you-next-Tuesday.” He gave her an ultimatum: ninety meetings in ninety days, or he was gone. It worked, but not the way anyone expected.
Rebuilding the Steps Her Own Way
Sunshine found a sponsor after being turned down five times, then finished working the steps with her therapist after her sponsor left the program entirely. Along the way, she realized she’d quietly rewritten every one of the twelve steps to fit her own spiritual path, one that includes tarot, ancestors, and gods and goddesses instead of a single, prescribed higher power. That realization became the seed for Sober Witch Life.
A Room for the Underserved
Today her Skool community hosts weekly recovery circles, monthly guest speakers, psychic development workshops, and spell-crafting sessions, all trauma-informed, cameras optional. New members regularly tell her they finally feel seen. As she puts it, “I get to help them not feel alone.”
“If I didn’t trust in my gifts, I’d be a step closer to a relapse.”
Sunshine’s story is proof that there’s no single template for getting and staying sober. If your version of recovery has ever felt like it needed to look different from someone else’s, this episode is your permission slip.
Action Items
- Identify the one or two guiding mantras that have carried you through hard seasons and write them down somewhere visible
- If a program or format isn’t working, look for what you can adapt rather than assuming recovery has failed
- Build a daily practice, even a short one, that keeps you present rather than replaying yesterday or worrying about tomorrow
- Ask for help more than once if the first person says no, keep asking
- Find or build a community where you don’t have to hide any part of yourself
Resources Mentioned
- The Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz: https://www.amazon.com/Four-Agreements-Practical-Personal-Freedom/dp/1878424505
- Sober Witch Life, Sunshine’s community and recovery coven: https://soberwitch.life/
- Skool, the platform hosting Sunshine’s recovery coven
👊 Need help applying this information to your own life?
Here are 3 ways to get started:
🎁 Free Guide: 30 Tips for Your First 30 Days – With a printable PDF checklist
Grab your copy here: https://www.soberlifeschool.com
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https://www.makesobrietystick.com
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Transcript
Sunshine The Sober Witch
[00:00:00] Sunshine, thank
you so much for joining me today. Thanks for having me. I’m gonna do your intro, uh, later, so we’re just gonna jump right into what I like to call the lightning round, which is a misnomer, ’cause it’s very slow. My regular listeners are like, “You have to do better,” because I say the same thing every week. But, um, when you first started your recovery journey, however that looked like for you, were there any books that really helped you out early on?
You know, I can’t think of any book specifically in my recovery journey, um, unless I were to go all the way back and say, like, recovering from childhood trauma, you know- Yeah … when I was in my 20s. There’s a book that’s just stuck with me ever since I, I read it probably about the age of 20, 23, um, and it was called, uh, The Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz.
And, you know, it just, it stuck with me. I’ve [00:01:00] purchased that book, I don’t even know, 10, 15 times for different people because of how- Ah … you know, how powerful of an impact that it had on me. Um, don’t ask me to recite The Four Agreements, but, um, I know today that when I go back and I look at what they are again, my life is aligned with what those agreements say.
Um- Yeah. It’s like, uh, do your best, be impeccable with your word. Yeah. Yeah, that’s all I got. Yeah, yeah. I know- I can’t remember what they- … be impeccable with your word is, is, is a, is a big one. But, you know, I, I, I have- Is don’t take anything personally one of them? I think it is. Okay. I think it is. I think that is absolutely another one of them.
Yeah. Um, but they’re just, they’re, like, they’re, like, kind of no-brainers in- Yeah … you know? Uh, but when it comes to, like, living in the household that I grew up in and all of this childhood trauma, and it was, you know, it was an alcoholic household. My father was an alcoholic. You know, my mom’s the enabler.
Um, you know, it, it was… [00:02:00] I didn’t know how to live. Like, I didn’t know- Yeah … how to be, um, you know, a kind, loving, healthy person, right? I mean, granted, I was still drinking and drugging for years after that, but I at least from that point on started to understand a little bit more about what it meant to be a kind and loving human- I think it’s-
even though I wasn’t kind and loving to myself. Yeah. Listen, it’s these ideas that are like seeds that get planted. Mm-hmm. And they germinate and blossom later. But th- that, that is a really good one, especially for those of us who didn’t grow up with a lot of good coping skills. Like, just, you know, like, what are the basics?
Let’s operate from first principles, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And it’s good to have that reminder, and it’s so interesting the idea of, you know, gifting something. Like, anytime we give something, we almost sort of, like, remember. Like, it’s an opportunity to sort of review the information that was so helpful to us.
My mom still has them printed out up on her [00:03:00] visor in her car. She is one of the p- people that I’ve given it to. Yeah. Aw. That’s… I love that. If you look over the years of your, like, healing journey, let’s say, your sobriety, does it… do you have, like, a go-to mantra that you live by, an idea? I, you know me, I love cliches.
One day at a time is kinda my get down. There… is there something like that that sort of, um, is a guiding principle in your life? You know, there’s probably handfuls of them. The one that comes to mind right now is that change is inevitable. It’s the only thing in life that’s constant. Mm-hmm. Right? Um, and, you know, that’s kept me so on my, on my path and it, it doesn’t matter in any part of my healing journey throughout my kind of like adult life, any time, um, coming back down to that.
And then, you know, if I just pick a second one is like everything does happen for a reason, right? We may not [00:04:00] like it, we may not agree with it, you know, we may wanna throw a temper tantrum and our hands in the air and, you know, stomp and kick. Um, but you know, even the shitty things that happened, even the things that aren’t fun and pleasant and, and wonderful, um, you know, there’s something.
And when, when we can look at things in that fashion, we can start to identify what the lesson is- Mm-hmm … that we need to take from it. What do we need to take? What do we need to leave behind? So I would say those two probably throughout my healing journey have always kind of been a rock or a foundation for, you know, me keeping, being able to move forward.
Yeah. I love that. I was just having a conversation with someone yesterday. We were talking about, you know, I never would’ve signed up for addiction in any form, but I’m really grateful for the lessons that it’s brought me. Like, it’s literally created a lifestyle and a path that I, I wouldn’t have s- you know, chosen.[00:05:00]
I w- I would’ve chosen for the fairy princess path, but that’s not what happened. Yeah, no, I, I, I still go back… I, I agree. Like, you know, if we would’ve rewound back to, you know, the embryo stage and again would I have chosen and said, “You know what I really look forward to, you know, is being an alcoholic, you know, being an addict when I’m an adult.”
Like, that’s never the case. But I do agree. Like, I think that the things that we go through in life are meant to, you know, give us what we need to be the best version of ourselves, and sometimes that is, you know, dark, shadowy, intense experiences, right? And I know there are people that don’t make it through.
I know, you know, I f- I feel that very personally. I’ve had, you know, friends, I’ve had a, you know, an ex-partner that no longer walks this earth because of his addiction. Um- But [00:06:00] I think too of, like, even his passing, um, and I remember I- his father called me recently. He passed away, like, three years ago, and his father called me and he asked how I was, and I got to tell him about all the work that I’m doing And he was like, and I said, I said, “I, I’m, I’m so proud to be doing this, and I, I wish something like this would have existed, you know, when Keith was still alive because I don’t know that he would have suffered as much.”
Yeah. You know? Yeah. Um, and his dad, his dad was just, like, really warm and really proud of me, and yeah, so you know, it’s like, it sucks and nobody would ever say again, this is… I- I can’t wait to grow up, you know. You ask a child, they’re not like, “Oh, I really want to be an addict when I grow up,” you know?
Yeah. Um, but I, I would never, I would never ask to give up any of the pain and the suffering that I have gone through, um, because I know every bit of it’s made me who I am today. Yeah. That’s beautiful. [00:07:00] When you think about how you care for yourself, do you have, like, a morning self-care routine? Do you see that as a weekly?
Is it a combination of physical, spiritual, emotional? What does that look like for you? I think it’s all. You know, I live a spiritual life. Like, every, every waking and I would even say sleeping moment to me is a, is a spiritual experience. Um, and there’s a couple of things that have really anchored me in my recovery, and I have a prayer that I say almost, almost every single day.
Like, if my day is really, really nuts and different, you know, it’s like not a normal day, I’m running out the door the moment I roll out of bed type stuff, um, I say a prayer that I say almost every day. I try to get movement in in some way every single day. It doesn’t matter if it’s a walk or I’ve got a vibration plate, um, or if it’s just dancing in the kitchen while I cook.
Um, you know, those to me are some, are really big things. And for the longest, [00:08:00] longest time, I would pull tarot cards every single morning, um, and I would journal. And I started to… You know, it was really interesting. So it was probably around the beginning of April I started to realize, like, I haven’t really pulled cards in a while, and we had some travel and stuff.
And I was like, and I started to get a, get, get some guilt, right? You know, like, oh, no, no. And I f- I had to step back and I, you know, had to kind of ask Spirit. I said, “What is this?” Like, why, you know, why, why A, you know, I don’t want to feel guilty. Like, is this… Should I be concerned? Like, am I letting go of some kind of habit that has anchored me?
And you know, what I heard as I, I sat and I asked that was, “No,” uh, because I had started to plan and plant all of my gardening for the year. So every morning, instead of sitting and journaling and writing, I started heading out to the greenhouse. I would look at the plants. Mm-hmm. I would tend to the plants.
I would make [00:09:00] sure they were watered. I would sit there for a couple of moments in silence and just admi- you know, admire, right? And they’re like, “That’s being present.” And they, they gave me this beautiful reminder and they said- I said, “Every time you sit down and journal, as wonderful as it is, you’re always looking at what happened yesterday, and then you’re pulling cards to say, what do you need to know about later today?”
Mm. And neither of those actions are keeping you in the present moment, like this time in the garden is. And I was like Have I guilt? No guilt there. Right? I was like, wow. Right? I… So yeah. Um, so I do think, again, everything I do in life has a spiritual component to it. I don’t, I don’t care what it is, you know?
Yeah. From drinking my coffee in the morning to watering the plants or, you know, even, um, you know, sitting down and, and just recognizing I have the moment to rest. Doesn’t matter what it is. Like, it’s a beautiful thing and, um, so yeah. The, the, the one thing is my daily [00:10:00] prayer, though. I, I… Even if it’s, like, my head’s hit the pillow at night and I realize I haven’t said it yet today, I’ll say it before I fall asleep.
Is it the same prayer, or is it just something- It’s the same prayer. So I- Okay. What is it? I, yeah, so, um, it’s a little lengthy. So I, you know, for those that are around a 12 step program, you, many folks are taught about the third step prayer, right? Yeah. This is kind of the time. And so this started, like, early in my recovery.
Um, and of course, um, it, it has elaborated and changed as I’ve needed to add additional things into prayer. So today’s prayer is now, uh, you know, “Dear gods, goddesses, angels, and ancestors, thank you, uh, for surrounding me, guiding me, protecting me, and taking me down a path in life that leads me to more, um, to a better life.
Um, thank you for, uh, also thank you for making sure that I, uh, never pick up a drink again. I, I don’t pick up a drink, that I move my body every day, and that I feed it nutritious and balancing foods. [00:11:00] I ask that you continue to surround me, guide and be, protect me, and take me down a path in life that leads me to more peace, love, happiness, hope, joy, and prosperity.
Allow me to remain in the passenger seat, let go of all control, and just sit back and enjoy life. Uh, please continue to bring individuals into my life that I can be of service to and that can be of service to me. I also offer protection to all of the individuals in my life that I love, all my friends, my family, uh, everybody that is in the recovery and the witchcraft communities that I’m connected to, especially everybody within the recovery coven.
Also protect all the women, children, the immigrants, those that cannot protect themselves. Protect all of these individuals from anything that will bring them harm, uh, anything that will, any low vibrational energies or entity, anything that will deter them from or venture them off of their highest vibrational path.
I also open up my heart chakra and I pray for all of the individuals that are still suffering from addiction, whether that addiction is drugs, alcohol, sex, chaos, violence, trauma, shopping, food, sugar, whatever’s robbing them from living their best possible lives. I pray that they find the courage that they need to take the steps toward the life [00:12:00] filled with more peace, love, happiness, hope, joy, and prosperity, and I pray they continue to find that courage every single day.”
Then I have a list of about 40 people’s names that I, I mention after that. Wow, that’s beautiful. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, yeah. You know, it’s- I, uh, don’t know if I could remember, though. I, you know, I said it’s been six and a half years that I’ve been saying it. Ah. And it’s added little bits and pieces, you know, throughout time.
Um, but you know, it’s- it’s foundational. It’s me connecting to the divine. It’s me- Mm-hmm … you know, being grateful. It’s me asking for, you know, protection for others. Uh, it’s me, you know, in the, uh, Witch’s 13 Steps to Recovery, the last one is to conduct ritual to release the world of addiction, and that last part to me is a spell that I’m casting every single day- Mm-hmm
uh, to try to help the people that, uh, I, that are in general out there or the people that I know and I’m connected to that I- I- I recognize are suffering from their own addictive patterns. Yeah. Yeah. That’s- that’s beautiful. Um, last [00:13:00] question for you before we move to, I wanna kinda talk about how we got here, but the last question is around is there anything that you wish you would’ve known when you first got sober?
Hmm. I don’t think so. I don’t think there’s a single thing that I would’ve wished that I would’ve known. You know, the- the- the journey, there, it’s f- it’s interesting, and I think the post actually went today is if, uh, that I put in my Facebook group. Um, it goes up once a month just to ask what people would say.
If you had a, um, a recovery buddy that had just started, what would you say? And in that one I have an answer, right? You know? Yeah. Like, just keep going. Find other people. Connect to community. But for me, like, the whole recovery journey in and of itself has been where all of the lessons have come from, all the resilience, all of the strength, all of the- Yeah
courage has come through all of that. So I, mm-mm, I- I- I would not, um… [00:14:00] Hold on, you know? Mm-hmm. Buckle up. Get ready. Life’s about to change. Maybe that, but no, there’s nothing I would tell myself. Those are, those are all good. Buckle up. Get ready. Mm-hmm. It’s gonna be a wild ride. Well, let’s talk about how we got here a little bit.
Um, you did mention that you had alcoholism and codependency, um, in your family, that you have experienced some trauma. Um, feel free to share as much or as little as you’d like about what it was like growing up. Um, you know, it was looking back at it, um, life growing up has, has a lot of blank pages, you know?
Mm-hmm. And, and if you talk to anybody from a mental health perspective- Yeah … they’ll tell you that’s, that’s an, that is usually a huge indicator of, uh, n- Trauma, trauma … neglect, abuse, and trauma. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and so, you know, I, I was raised Catholic. I went to a parochial Catholic [00:15:00] school, so all of my really, really lovely memories are always in school, right?
Are always around school, around Girl Scouts. Um, I don’t have a lot of really lo- lovely memories at home. Um, you know, my dad was an alcoholic. My dad was a pretty much drink every day type of guy. He drank rum and Cokes. Um, by the time I was, I don’t know, maybe 9 or 10 years old, I knew how to make his, you know, chef’s kiss drink, um, because I would get his refills.
Um, and it was really growing up in this Very distorted, like distorted understanding of what life was. Um, you know, like I thought everybody was a workaholic. My dad worked all of the time, never spent time really with the kids very much. Um, I thought that everybody drank. I thought every family, you know, just that was what you [00:16:00] all did.
Um, I thought that, uh, being shut down and told not to have, like, emotions, don’t show emotional responses, was a normal thing. Like, you were, you were supposed to be tough and, you know, showing emotion was weak, which is a weird thing for, I think, a lot of girls to say, but I was, I was told this. I was punished for crying and upsetting my mother when I was upset.
Um- Hmm. So it was, it was, it was not fun. It was… I don’t have a lot of joy-filled moments with my family, though I do have a lot of joy-filled moments with friends, right? You know, that’s a, a different story, and I’m very blessed for that, ’cause I think that was what kept me from really a much darker path. I mean, I had it pretty decently dark, but I think there’s a, a much darker path that I could have ventured down.
Um, but I started drinking at eight years old, you [00:17:00] know? Those half-finished drinks of my father’s were pretty yummy. Hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep, and, uh- So was that your first, uh, memory of drinking was around eight? You know, the first memory that I have is I was raised Catholic, and so I, uh, took wine at church.
Yeah. And I can remember being excited that I was gonna be able to drink wine. Like, this is a weird statement to say, right? Like, I was very excited to be able to drink wine, and it was after that that I have memories of seeking out his beverages, his half-finished drinks- Hmm … to finish. Yeah. I’ve had flashbacks, though, as I’ve been in recovery of being given alcohol even younger.
Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Little sips here and there. Mm-hmm, yep. Yeah. Um, it sounds like you may have had siblings. Did you grow up with brothers and sisters? I had an older brother, um, you know, and I have a lot of really [00:18:00] lovely memories when we were younger, but when he turned probably about 13, 14, he really turned into, um, a different kid, you know?
I, I, I speculate… Well, now interestingly enough, this is around the same time, so if he was… Yeah, okay. I’m just now realizing the age I, I would’ve been when he started to get mean, um- He just, he did. He became really mean. He started to fight a lot with my father. Wow. Um, there was a l- lot of, like, I was emotionally abused by both my father and my brother.
Um, which I didn’t know this, but most, there’s a really high number of childhood, like, bullying of siblings. I don’t know. Siblings. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I’ve heard that a lot. There’s so- Yeah … that was a wild realization. Um, so yeah, it just, I, I spent a lot of time in my room by myself. Um, I was an avid reader, loved to read, get [00:19:00] lost in books.
Um, I was a good student except when I hit my freshman year in high school, and this was, there’s a l- there’s a lot of missing memories at this time, ’cause my brother’s five years older than me, so as I’m 13, he’s 18, and now he’s an adult, and the fights between him and my father became violent. Wow. Yeah.
So I have vague memories of having to go next door and get our next-door neighbor, who was a cop, to try to break up fights between my brother and my father. Um, just all sorts of, like, gnarly stuff. And I, you know, I’ve now, looking back, realized I think my home life was so wretched. That’s the reason I really struggled in my freshman year of high school, is, like, I went through this big transition of having to switch to a larger, much larger school, and new people, and yet had zero support, like, anywhere really, right?
You [00:20:00] don’t really have any kind of consistently, consistency at school because everything just switched, and then the home life is just an absolute madhouse, madhouse, holes in the walls, that kind of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it was So home was not a safe place for you. The bullying probably did a lot of damage to your self-esteem.
Is that fair? Oh, horrible. You know, I, I, I, my brother, the infamous words of my brother, um, that have rung through my ears most of my teenage years and adult life have been, “You’re, uh, you’re fat and ugly and nobody is ever gonna love you.” Yikes. Yep. Brutal. Brutal. Yep. Do you feel like those experiences were the experiences that compelled you into, um, addiction later?
I think, I think there’s a lot of components from this perspective. So if we think about the mind, [00:21:00] body, and the spirit that we all are, right? I think from a mind perspective, those things contributed. From a body perspective, I, I, you know, I had the epigenetics of an alcoholic in my body. Mm-hmm. Right? I literally had the DNA of a, of, of an- Yeah
you know, addict i- into my body. And from a spirit perspective, um, I have been highly sensitive from a psychic perspective ever since I was a kid. Mm. And so I have all of this extra sensory kind of energy coming through to me that I just don’t know h- how to deal with, right? So you add all three of those together, yeah, I don’t, I’m, I’m not surprised whatsoever that I would have chosen chosen some s- type of substance, um, or, and behavior.
Like, I, I’ve been a workaholic most of my life, right? Mm-hmm. I started working at the age of 11. I say I’m an, a recovering alcoholic, workaholic, perfectionist, and control freak. That’s what [00:22:00] I say. Um- A girl after my own heart. Yeah, I know. Uh, I, there’s a, there’s a, there’s a number of us out there, you know?
Oh, yeah. We go right from the addiction, uh, you know, alcohol or drugs, and then we’re into, like, work or, um, you know… Oh, yeah. But yeah, like, I, it’s not a surprise to me that I would have sought something. And when I say sought, I mean, like, I was the kid trying to get other people drunk. I was the 16-year-old that went, “Who here in high school,” ’cause I go to a Catholic high school, “smokes pot?
I’m gonna go befriend them.” Right? Like, I sought this stuff out. And, like, like, to a be- like, oh, this friend, I remember seeing alcohol at their, their house. I’ll see if they wanna hang out this… Oh, don’t your parents have some alcohol at in the basement? Oh, let’s go… Yeah, I mean, just… Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, we definitely would’ve hung out.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I th- I think that’s pretty common, you [00:23:00] know, seeking, seeking out, you know, they call it, you know, in recovery they often call it seeking out lower companionship, but I ended up being that, uh, bad influence. I was the- Yes … bad influence- Yep … on others. Uh-huh. Seeking out. Oh, yeah, all, like, all, in, in every front, every…
I mean, my friends, some of the friends that I had in my later teen, throughout my 20s, like, they knew. I, I was just, I was known as the bad influence. You know? Um, and it was a, it was a joke some, you know, sometimes. And I, I, uh, don’t get me wrong, I also took a lot of pride in it back then. Yeah. You know? And- It’s a badge of honor.
Mm-hmm. But yeah, no, it’s, uh, it, I, it’s doesn’t surprise me again that that’s the place that I ended up. Yeah. Right? I, I was never taught any of the skills. I mean, I even remember, and this is such a, I, you know, I should talk to my mom about this. I have this memory of my parents finding pot on me, so I had to have been, like, [00:24:00] 16, 15, 16.
Uh, but this, it’s so vague, and forcing me to go to a psychiatrist. And I go into the psychiatrist, and I sit down and I talk to them, and I, you know, admit that I had smoked pot. And they’re like, “Well, we wanna put you on some medication, but you can’t take it while you smoke pot.” And I remember driving home afterwards, and I said to my mom, I was like, “There’s no way in hell you’re gonna take me off of pot and put me on some k- kind of, uh, psychotic medication.”
I said, “That’s not happening.” Pharmaceutical. Yeah, some s- some pharmaceutical. Um, and I never went back. I, I told her I refused. Mm-mm. Yeah. Yeah, I just- I, I can appreciate that. Yeah. I, it, it was, it was the wildest thing. So yeah, uh, childhood, mm. You know, people are like, “Oh, I’d love to go back to high school.”
I’m like, “You are crazy.” Oh, my God. Yeah, not, I, you couldn’t pay me to go back. Yeah. Nope. Definitely not. So when did you [00:25:00] start ex- you know, you mentioned it, it got kinda dark, and I think those are the stories that people really resonate with. And, um, not trying to be sensationalistic about it, but I think that’s what really people connect with i- are these, you know, stories of like, “Oh, yeah, me too,” doing all that stuff.
So I, I’m curious about, like, the darkness because that’s typically what, when we start experiencing those negative consequences that we start to think about changing. What was that like for you? You know, I, I think sometimes because I was a girl, the consequences never got as bad as they could have. Mm.
I’m gonna, I’ll put it out there. Um, you know, I can remember all sorts of… You know, I’ll, I’ll talk about the cop one, cop ones. There’s two that come to mind, and I was probably 18 [00:26:00] at this time, and it was summertime, so I would’ve been 18 going on 19, and, um, no, actually it might have been right be- I don’t know.
It doesn’t matter. Uh, and we had befriended a couple of new guys, me and a couple of my girlfriends, and, um, started smoking crack. Yeah. And they didn’t have a car. How old were you around this time? I was like 18, 19. Okay. Somewhere around this age. Okay. And, um, they didn’t, the guy didn’t have a car, and so I did.
I was one of the only friends that actually had a car. We had pagers back then, in case any of your listeners aren’t familiar. It’s a little device- … that people call and My listeners are my age. They, we all get it. I know. So they would send me a page, uh, and I would come pick, you know, these two guys up, and we would drive down into the hood, and they would score, and I- we would [00:27:00] drive back, and they would smoke with me.
And, um, I don’t even know how many times I did this, and we’re not talking about dozens. We’re talking about maybe handfuls, maybe s- maybe four or five times. And, um, one of the guys, you know, had a thing for me. And so me and my one girlfriend just pick him up, and we go, and we get the, some paraphernalia at one store, and we’re driving down a main thoroughway, and I get pulled over And needless to say, there’s a, we’re both, like, 18, I think 18, and he’s, like, I don’t know, 26, 27, right?
He’s an older guy. And cops pull us all out of the car, search my whole car, find my witchcraft books in the trunk, and finally, you know, find, like, his fifth of, of, uh, Johnnie Walker that he had on him and the paraphernalia, like a, a, a, um, a rose, right? Mm-hmm. [00:28:00] And they’re like, “What is this for?” And, you know, the whole time I’m just like, right?
So he lets me and my two girlfriends go, but sends this guy off walking, tells the guy just to get walking, and watches him walk all the way. Um, so n- nothing happened that time, but here, some- e- everything could have. Yeah. Right? Like, what if we were driving back? What if we had already scored? ‘Cause that’s what we were on- Right
the way to do type stuff. Right. Um, and then there was another time, and it, this was probably about maybe four years later. I’d been at a bar and had been drinking, you know, we’d been partying, and I’m outside of the bar in the parking lot. There’s, like, me and I think two other folks, two or three other folks in my car, and smoking a joint.
And all of a sudden, the cops show up because there was a big fight that broke out at the bar. And now we’re like, “Oh, shit.” You can’t get back into the bar because it was a huge brawl. I was not ready to go, but now I’ve gotta [00:29:00] leave. So I’ve got f- people in my car I don’t know, so I, now I start to be, like, the, the drive home, home person.
And as I, after I dropped everybody off and I’m on my way home, I got pulled over again. This time I was intoxicated, and I was on side streets, and the cop was like, “Did you see that you, you kind of rolled through that stop sign?” And I was like, “Oh, man, I really gotta pee.” I was like, “I just, I really gotta go, you know, I’m just trying to get home.
I’m just, like, another mile down the road,” and he let me go. Wow. Right? Uh, couple years around then, um, same thing. I think this might’ve been two years after this one. Uh, drinking in my, uh, my apartment, you know? And it’s me, my boyfriend at the time, and our two friends. And we’ve all finished the, the, these…
All of us together were fish. It was just… I’m, I’m, like, shocked at the amount of alcohol we could drink. And, um, we’d finished a half gallon between four [00:30:00] of us, and it was, like, 1:00 o’clock, and we weren’t done partying. And so the one friend, you know, they’re, like, trying to d- you know, figure out what we’re gonna do, and the one friend’s like, “Well, I can drive.”
Okay. So him and my boyfriend try to drive up to the corners, to the corner store that’s, like, a mile and a half away. And he gets pulled over. He is, of course, drunk as a skunk, and gets my car impounded, gets arrested Oh, man. Yeah. So I, like, there’s all these little escapes. Like, it never really, the, the, the, the storm never blew up for me, but I kept dancing with the devil, so to speak, you know, most of my 20s.
And in my 30s, you wise up at some point, and you’re like, “I won’t drink and drive anymore.” [00:31:00] But now I’m just, it’s just another excuse ’cause I’m at home to drink two to three times the amount I would’ve if I was out, right? Right, right. I’d have had three to four drinks if I was out in a night. May- you know?
If I was out for four or five hours dancing, I might’ve had four or five drinks. Right. But if I’m at home, I’m finishing off a half a fifth or a fifth myself. Mm-hmm. Right? And now the blackouts start. You know? All of these mor- they happened in my 20s, but in my 30s they were much, much more frequent. Much more frequent.
Um, you know, wake up the next morning, not realize what I had said to my husband at the time, not realizing what I’d done. Um, realizing I had a, uh, there was a, a gentleman that worked for me that ended up in a… You know, we never cheated, um, but you know, it went about as close as you could without cheating, you know?
And I was [00:32:00] married. Um, so there’s just, like, all of these things, and I look back and I’m like, “This is not the person that I wanted to be.” Mm-hmm, yeah. Like, this isn’t the person, you know, um- And let’s not even, you know, these are all of kind of those pieces. The amount of times as a woman I allowed myself to sleep with someone that I never would’ve if I wasn’t drunk Put myself into situations, you know?
Like, I had times where I would have a guy that I was dating, um, show up with another guy or another girl and get me drunk so that, you know, the three of us, the four of… I mean, the amount of stuff, and d- don’t get me wrong, like, I’m not a prude. There’s a lot of things that I enjoy. But looking back, the amount of things that [00:33:00] I allowed myself to do- Mm
that now as I’m sober, I just would never have violated myself. And I had- Yeah … I had one instance where I had a gentleman I had been dating, I’d probably been on, like, three or four dates with him, and we ended up back at his place, and I told him I liked it rough, and we were drunk. And it went to, to the point- Too far
way too far, and to the point that, like, I had to throw him off of me. And, like, n- at this point, I’m now crying, and I’m so afraid, and I, I, like, grabbed my stuff and I, I left. And again, drunk. Yeah. Right? You know, so just all of these situations of, you know, um, my gosh, yeah, just that, that I’ve done. And the, the, the last kind of final straw was, um, in [00:34:00] 2019 I started, that’s when I s- started down my path of, like, really evaluating, like, in a serious fashion.
And I had, I had about 63 days sober, um, when I left Detroit for Costa Rica to celebrate my 40th birthday. Mm. And my partner at the time, he, him and I were, we were lovely addicts together. We were just, you know, the BFF addicts. But I was trying to get sober, and he wasn’t. And, um, we get off the plane in Costa Rica and he walks into the duty-free and he walks out with two half gallons, one of my favorite tequila, the other of my favorite, uh, uh, vodka.
And I was like, “What are you doing?” And he’s like, “We’re on vacation.” And I’m realizing now, like, we never had a conversation around what vacation was gonna look like with [00:35:00] alcohol use. Hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, and I was in Costa Rica for maybe five hours before I drank again. You know, 63 days, I drank. And, um, you know, I got really drunk the first night, and the next day was so hungover, hardly drank at all.
And then the third day was my birthday, and we woke up at 10:00 and we started drinking. And we drank all day, and in the pool around 5:00, um There was a couple other folks that were hanging out in the pool. We started, like, chatting and laughing and, uh, he ended up in the bathroom with one of them
And he came out and I raged. I like, I showed up in a way that I don’t even know who that person was. I was so mad. I was so hurt. I felt so, [00:36:00] um, unbelievably just like violated that he would have done th- on my birthday of all days, you know? Like just… And, uh, then I ended up back into the resort room and I told him to leave.
I was done with him. He could find his own way home, and uh, I, um, packed up his suitcase for him and made sure that all the drugs that we had on us were tucked away and hidden in his suitcase, so that if he did leave, he wouldn’t know they were there, and if he did go home He’d be found with drugs on him.
Wow. Yeah. So I say that that was, I was a grade A, uh, bonafide see you next Tuesday that day. Um, yeah, just I, I, I don’t remember my, the rest of the evening. We had a private dinner with the chef. I only know that I ate it alone [00:37:00] because I had pictures of it. Oh, okay. Um- Yeah … and it was just, it was such a, what was supposed to be this unbelievably beautiful, like, luxury resort vacation just turned into, like, this horrific, horrific rock bottom memory.
And you would think that maybe that would’ve gotten me to not drink again, but we continued to drink after we kind of made up, um, and do coke for the whole rest of the week while we were there. Um, and it wasn’t until I came home, and on the… We sat in an airport, uh, waiting for our flight, and I said, “What happens when we get home?”
And, um, he’s like, “The only way that I can stay is if you do 90 meetings in 90 days.” Wow. Yeah. So it’s wild to think, because he was, he wasn’t the one that wanted to, like, himself get, uh, get sober, right? He was all- Mm-hmm … about continuing to drink and [00:38:00] drug, but he gave me that ultimatum. He’s like, “I’m not the one with the problem, you are.”
I know. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so, um, that’s the reason why I stepped in and finally… You know, I remember being home. I remember being so horrifiedly, horrifyingly ashamed of the, the version of me that showed up there. Um, I just, I knew, I knew I never wanted to go back again. I mean, I had all sorts of other reasons.
I had a cousin that passed away that, from alcoholism that year. I’d almost lost my father two years prior to that to alcoholism. I had all of these other reasons, but seeing who showed up there on my 40th birthday on something that I’d planned for well over a year, that I’d spent well over $5,000 on, I, yeah.
So I was willing to do whatever it was gonna take at that point. And is that when you, is that when you started, um, your recovery, like, going to meetings and things like that? Yeah. [00:39:00] Yeah, that’s, um, I remember, uh- You know, it’s interesting. I’ll, I’ll, I’ll back up for a second ’cause a lot of times when you can look back and reflect on things, you see life a lot differently.
And so there’s a piece of me that believes my recovery journey started when I left my ex-husband in 2015. Mm-hmm. He was emotionally abusive, but I kept drinking, right? I didn’t think the alcohol was an issue, um, until, you know, this 2019 when I started. It was at that time, so October 9th of 2019 is, is the day that I stepped into the life that I’m in today.
Um, I started going to meetings. I found a friend. I, I didn’t actually, I found a friend. I knew one person on my Facebook that had mentioned ever going to AA, and I called them up, and I hadn’t seen them since I was, like, 16 years old. [00:40:00] And I said, “I’ve seen that you’ve been to AA.” I said, “I’m, I’m struggling. I need help.
Can you take me to a meeting?” Wow. And he did Took me to a meeting. And, uh, I did. I completed 90 meetings in 90 days from that point forward. Mm-hmm. That’s amazing. So you’ve been sober since October 9th, 2019, and it sounds like you’ve been able to cultivate your own path. You’ve been able t- and I don’t mean to speak for you.
Correct me if I’m wrong. You’ve been able to pull from different disciplines to create something that fits for you. Is that fair? Can you describe- Yeah. Yeah, you know- Okay, so, uh, sorry to interrupt you, but I just wanna set the stage a little bit because when I was introduced to you, I, I, uh, know nothing about sort of like the sober witch life.
I see your little sign in the back, sober witch life. And, um, so I would love to know, like, what [00:41:00] are the misconceptions? What is reality? Like, how does it, how did you- Yeah … incorporate that? Because it sounds like you’re doing m- you know, multidisciplinary approach, so what does all that look like? Yeah. Yeah, you know, I think the biggest misconception and, um, you know, I think what you’re referring to is really around the, the witch stuff.
Yeah, for sure. There’s a lot of, uh, the… You know, there is a lot of… E- even if you think about the fact that the term witch can be used in a derogatory fashion. “Oh, she’s such a witch.” Yeah. Right? That’s usually how you hear about it. And so, you know, we’ve got the Wicked Witch of the West, like, all of these things.
The, the Sorensen sisters, like, if the, uh- Yeah … I forget what the, the dang movie is. And so there’s a lot of misconceptions around, like, you know, being a witch is, you know, evil. It’s satanic. Um, it is, uh… Y- you know, you’re gonna go to hell. Um, you’re [00:42:00] practicing, you know, uh, dark kind of magic, and you’re gonna curse me or hex me or that kind of stuff.
Um, I think there’s a lot of mi- misconceptions around that. Uh, I’ve had to c- I’ve had to solidify what being a witch means to me. And so I say this is my philosophy of a witch. And a witch is an individual that believes in and practices the psychic arts. Okay? Uh, they are an individual that believes in and practices magic and ritual.
They are also a, an individual that believes and practices, uh, that we are to be of service to the world. Throughout history, a lot of the witches were the midwives, the healers, you know, the herbalists. They, they had the apothecaries in towns and in communities. You would come to them for the, the salves and the tinctures and, and the, the, the healing medicine, right?
Um, you know, and that’s not [00:43:00] what’s often looked at when f- people first hear the word witch. Um, but they are often a healer. Like, I have yet- Mm-hmm … to meet a single witch that would not also identify as an empath, um, a healer, um, a psychic. Um, and so for the, for the longest time, like I, I wouldn’t even embrace that name.
Like, I knew I was a witch. I’d call myself a witch behind closed doors, but in public I would just… Because again, there’s like such a misconception. I mean, I have literally been told to ask Jesus to save me, I couldn’t even tell you how many times, right? Uh, and my response is, “Jesus and I are good friends, but thank you for caring,” right?
Um, so the path that I set down, again, you know, I’ve had these highly sensitive gifts, you know, the, these psychic abilities since I was a child. And so the moment I decided to stop drinking and I did those 90 minutes in 90 days, it was like all of my gifts just kind of fired up again. I started to realize [00:44:00] how sensitive again that I really was.
Yeah. And I would go into these meetings, and they’d become, depending upon who walked into the room with me, I’d be either very overwhelmed or I’d be very… So, and I, and then spirit started to talk to me. Um, I had the f- I remember sitting around the tables, um, this one time and then seeing my grandfather show up, like, you know, like as a medium I saw my grandfather.
And I’m like, and then it hits me, I’m like, oh my God, my grandfather came into my family’s life through the 12 steps. My grandfather was a recovering alcoholic. Wow. And he met my grandmother because he brought my uncle home from jail My, my grandfather was called up, and this, as the story goes, and somebody said, “Hey, Hugh, there’s a young guy.
He’s, uh, you know, he’s, he, you know, just he’s been out of the military, got himself into some trouble. He could really use somebody that would help him.” Literally 12-step, [00:45:00] right? Yeah. My grandfather picks him up from jail, has a conversation with him, a cup of coffee, and then takes him back to my grandmother’s house, and that’s how he met my grandmother.
Whoa. I know, like wild. That’s wild. You know, so I was like, “I never realized this.” And so I, I did the 90 meetings in 90 days, but I, I always felt like I was still hiding a piece of me. Mm, mm-hmm. I felt like there wasn’t something that I could bring… I couldn’t bring all of me to the table. I could only bring the alcoholic to the table.
Yeah. Right? I mean, and it… I couldn’t bring the drug addict to the table, right? I mean, as much as we like to think that you can, it wasn’t an A… It wasn’t an NA meeting, right? It was an AA meeting. Yeah. Some, some meetings are more tolerant than others- I- -for sure. They’re all different I, I agree. Yeah. I, I agree, but, like, and, and that was like you were kind of like, “Hey,” you know, “if you need to do that,” where, you know.[00:46:00]
Uh, so I, I’d been pulled, pulled aside more than one time, and one of the last times I had been about two and a half months in, almo- almost had my 90 days, and I sat in a, in a table, and I think we were doing, like, a step, um, like a, you know, a step kind of, uh, exploration or something. Mm-hmm. And I said, “Higher powers.”
And somebody pulled me aside afterwards and said, “Hey, I just wanted to make sure that you said, you know, that you knew that you said higher powers, and I don’t know if that’s what you meant,” or like, you know, “I don’t, didn’t want people to misunderstand you.” Hmm. And I was just like, “No, I really meant higher powers.”
Yeah. I said, “I, you know, I, I work with my ancestors and different-” Yeah … gods and goddesses.” And like, I watched them just, like, glass over, right? Yeah. They didn’t know how to respond to it. Just did not- Yeah … know how to respond to it. And so I, I mean, I, I, I have so much respect for the 12 step, for the table.
I have so much respect. I will [00:47:00] absolutely send or take people, right, at any time, any time. But I knew when I… That 90 days was up, I knew two things. I knew I didn’t wanna have to do a meeting every damn day again. Yeah. Right? Yeah. But I knew I needed to figure out what the heck I was going to keep doing every single day- Mm-hmm
that kept me on my path. And when I looked around and I looked at the people that had years, we’re not talking just about, like, three or four years, we’re talking about 15, 20, 25. There was a gentleman that had, like, 53 years. He got sober out of the military after he, like, came out of the military. A beautiful soul.
And I was like, “What do these guys all have in… Like, what do all of these folks have in common?” And the one thing I realized they all had in common was they all had a very strong spiritual faith. Mm, mm-hmm. Right? They had, they had, they, they, they didn’t have any issues wearing their, their cross. They didn’t have any issues talking about [00:48:00] God if they, they needed to talk about it.
They didn’t, like… Had, like, nothing. And so I, I said, “Okay, what’s mine?” Like, what is mine, right? Yeah. What’s my church? How am I gonna- Yeah … how do I go to church every week, so to speak? Yeah, that’s, that’s basically step two. Yep. And, um, I realized, you know, at that particular point, like, I, I’d identified as a witch since I was 16 years old.
Yeah. I’d been practicing- You had the books. Yeah. I had, I had the books. I mean, I’d been doing spell work. I’d been, you know, reading on various, uh, different topics, you know, throughout my adult life, um- So I said, “What does that mean?” And so I pulled out my cards. I started pulling my cards every single day.
Um, thus, why you can maybe understand a little bit of that guilt, like almost six years of pulling a card every single day. Yeah. Yeah. And that, that changes. Um, and I [00:49:00] started to read cards for other people. Like, I would literally… I fired up a Facebook page called Sunshine Readings, and every Tuesday night I would go online and I would read cards for folks for an hour and a half.
Wow. And I, I considered that my church. I love that. Yeah. I started making- I, I wanna make one clarification. So meetings are not the program, right? The s- 12 steps and getting a sponsor, working the… That’s actually the program. I don’t… Were you able to complete all that in 90 days? So I… No, I don’t know that anybody would be able to complete.
I, I found a sponsor after five asks. I was told no five times. These, these were the other- By the way, that’s brutal. But yeah. And so I didn’t- I, I had a, I had a similar experience How I found a sponsor was, uh, one of the women that I’d asked that told me no s- said, “I think I have a sponsee that’s ready to sponsor.”
So I started to work the steps with them, [00:50:00] um, for about two and a half months until I got a text message from them, and they said, “Hey, can you give me a call? I need to chat with you.” And I said, “Cool.” I called them up, and they said, “Um, so I need to let you know something before I tell everybody else.” And I said, “Okay, what is it?”
She says, “I’m leaving AA, and I’m leaving the church.” And I was just like… Okay. Next. I, I was just, like, mind blown, so I, the rest of the steps for the rest of the year, I didn’t work with a sponsor. I worked with my therapist. Okay. So my therapist and I would go through the steps, and we’d, we’d work all of them, and so…
That’s awesome. Yeah, you know, it was… I’d been working with her for a while. Um, you know, she knew about… I felt very comfortable with all of my witchy beliefs. Like, she would ask me things like- Nice … “Have you done a spell about this? Have you pulled cards o- on this?” Um, she was a really, really beautiful soul, and so, uh, you know, a [00:51:00] year into my whole 365 days later, I took a look back.
I’d pretty much at that point, um, worked the steps as far as I could, like, besides, like, its 12th step, right? You know? I, I- Mm-hmm … I still wasn’t, uh, kind of doing that. And, um, I asked myself, like, “How in the hell…” You know? Like, “How did I do this?” Like, “How in the world did this just happen?” And I, looking through, had realized that even though I’d worked the steps and done, you know, all of these things, I’d put a completely, like, witchy spin to every single one of them.
Every single one of them. Um, you know, and I realized at that point that if that worked for me and got me to 365 days, that might work for somebody [00:52:00] else, too. Absolutely. I, I think what I love the most about this story is that, um, you’ve been able to maintain your sobriety. The… It, it just, it’s a testament to there is m- a multitude of ways to achieve sobriety, a multitude of ways.
Yep. Uh, and so I really appreciate that you’ve been able to find and develop your own path, which is really important. And I feel like you serve a very underserved community. We… Before we s- Yeah … you know, hit record, you were talking about people that are like you that, um, identify with the witch community.
I don’t know if I’m saying that right, but you know what I mean? It’s, like, that have these- Mm-hmm … that are underserved, right? People are afraid to talk about it. So I love that you are creating a space for an underserved community. Yeah. It’s, uh… You know, I think the sentiment that I shared with you is, like, I [00:53:00] thought that I would find some other people.
I did not think it was going to be as big or as, like… I mean, to have people, like, reach out and… I, I, I’ve heard it more than one time. Uh, you know, “I finally feel seen. I feel like I can actually do this this time.” Yeah. Right? I, like, literally, you know, had a, a, a woman just join circle last night that said, um, you know, they’d been really struggling and, uh, just didn’t even know that anything like this was available or possible.
And she shot me a message today and she goes, “I, I actually feel like… I, I feel like this is the way. Like, this, this is gonna… This is what I’ve been needing. This is, this is what was missing.” Oh, man. Yeah. And, you know, and I… To hear it over and over again and, you know, to see people, and then to… This is the most beautiful thing, is to see the other people in the community, them be the ones [00:54:00] that are cheering those new folks on.
Yeah. Right? You are home. Like, you’re meant to be here. Yeah. Like, the, the… You know, you get to be you here. Like, that to me has been… You know, I get, I get goosebumps even just thinking about it. It has been such a, a beautiful experience. Um, and yeah, I mean, it’s been s- over six and a half years now since I last had a drink.
Um, my life is so drastically different night and day. Uh, and I, I get to do this? Like, I get to, like, help other people navigate as who they are? Mm-hmm. Right? As who they are, like, as this person that wants to believe in spirits and tarot cards and deities and goddesses and guides, and, you know, they… Like, I get to help them not feel alone?
Yeah. ‘Cause I’ll tell you, it felt really lonely You know, I got sober in 2019, so the [00:55:00] math… You hit, you hit, um, the pandemic six months almost to the day the w- Right … the United States shut down, almost six months to the day I got sober. Wow. And ta- yeah. That’s brutal. Yeah. That’s brutal. Yeah. So it felt really lonely- Yeah
that whole first year. I’m sure, yeah. And now you’ve built this amazing community. I’m curious where, um, I know there’s gonna be people listening to this that are just eager to connect with other people like them. Where is your community? You mentioned Facebook. You have a community on Facebook? Yeah. We do, we do have a, um, a private group on Facebook, but we, uh, you can always for all of the information visit www.soberwitch.life.
Okay. Try to keep that really easy. Yeah. Um, we have… Our private recovery coven is hosted on a platform called Skool. Oh, you’re on a Skool community. Mm-hmm. [00:56:00] Okay. So I’ll leave links to both of these in the show notes. Cool. If you’re listening and you’re driving and you can’t write it down, I’ll leave the links in the show notes.
And what, and what do you… Do you have like a f- a meeting format? Is it a, do you have, um, what, what is the structure of the Skool community or the- Yeah. So we right now have two weekly, uh, recovery circle meetings, so Monday nights at 7:00 PM Eastern and noon at Friday on Eastern. Um, one day every month we have a, um, guest speaker, so we do bring somebody in to kind of share their story as how they- Yeah
you know, incorporated magic and take questions, simil- similar like an open meeting in, in the, um, 12 step program. Um, our format is first and foremost, I, I consider any of the work that I do as being trauma informed. So if, if people just wanna show up, they’re welcome. Okay. If they wanna keep their cameras off, ’cause this is all on Zoom, um- Okay
they’re welcome. Like, they, you know, sometimes [00:57:00] that’s all we have the capacity to do. Yeah. That’s all that our bodies have the capacity to do. Um, we literally pull a tarot card every single sh- every single meeting. We talk about what its meaning is as it relates to recovery. I typically have looked at the astrological correspondence for the day, and I’ll use that card and those correspondents to come up with three different journal prompts for the day.
Um- Ooh, I love journal prompts … we spend a little bit of time… Yeah. We spend a little bit of time journaling and then we come back to share. So, and we do celebrations. I always open it with celebrations, so is there anything that we get to hype up and celebrate with folks. And we close with, um, magical requests, so if anybody has any prayers or intentions that they need some help and support with, we open the floor and allow the community to help support it.
Um, yeah. So, uh, th- those are really lovely. Those are available in the Skool, uh, community, but we also have throughout the month- We do a two psychic development workshops or, or, um, circles every month. So those are to help build out the, um, [00:58:00] psychic development skills. To me, uh, my connection with my gifts, um, are…
it’s very beautiful and has probably been one of the biggest kind of like, um, things in my pocket through my recovery. If I, if I didn’t trust in my gifts, um, I’d be a step closer to a relapse. That’s what I’ve told people. Um, we do a spell crafting once a month as well. We do a creative alchemy. Um, tonight I’m actually hosting our, um, witches wellness hour, so I’ll be doing…
Uh, I don’t know. I usually sit for about the hour beforehand and see what spirit wants, but, um, last month we had somebody do a s- doing a sound bath and some, uh, tapping. But yeah, we do something around healing- Nice … uh, for the night. Yeah. And, uh, we actually… I just asked if folks are interested in starting a 30-day meditation challenge in June.
So we’re gonna- Nice … see if we might do that one. Love that. Well, [00:59:00] Sunshine, I so appreciate your unique path and your unique skill set. I, I, I, I love woo-woo stuff. I don’t even know if you would consider it woo-woo. I, I also love, like, the science-y stuff. Um- Mm-hmm … so I, I just really appreciate you being willing to come and talk about, like, the sober witch life and share what that means, and dispel some of the misconceptions, and just really help people to find a place where they feel accepted.
Like, that is so important. Like, we all need that place where we can just be our… accepted and be ourselves. So I, I think it’s… I, I think it’s just so great that you’re commu- creating this community that’s so underserved. Oh, thank, thank you. I, I appreciate it. And, uh, you know, I, I see it… You know, there are some other programs that are out there.
You know, Recovery Dharma’s gotten pretty big and- Yeah … accepted, Smart Recovery. Alter- al- alternate pathways to just a 12-step. And- Yeah … you know, my goal [01:00:00] is to have three meetings every single day, every day of the week. Um, over time, you know, we’ll get there. Um- Yeah … I’ve only been around for about a year, so…
I, I love it. I love it. Yeah, keep doing what you’re doing. Um- Thanks … I think this is such a important space that you’re creating. And I just wanna thank you for spending time with me today. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.