In this episode, I sit down with Joe Gallagher – entrepreneur, author, and two-year sober miracle. Joe shares his journey from childhood trauma and 20 years of failed recovery attempts to launching a spaghetti sauce company 60 days sober and landing interest from 1,100 grocery stores.

You’ll hear how Joe finally surrendered after his fifth arrest and seventh suicide attempt, what made this recovery stick when the previous two decades didn’t, and how service, community, and massive action became the foundation of both his sobriety and his business. His book “From Bars to Jars: A Saucy Redemption Story” is available now, and his honesty about childhood sexual abuse, self-forgiveness, and faith makes this one of the most courageous conversations on the show.

The Weight of What Came Before

Joe started drinking at 13 at a cousin’s wedding and by the time he first walked into a meeting in 2010, he had already attempted suicide seven times. Childhood sexual abuse, a violent home, years of bullying – all of it created a man who desperately wanted relief but couldn’t accept help. He tried the program on half measures for twenty years: a month here, 90 days there. “I wanted what you guys had, but I wasn’t willing to do everything you were doing.”

The final surrender came at the lowest possible moment: his fifth arrest on a domestic violence charge, puking up blood, facing the real possibility of spending the rest of his life in jail. In that cell, Joe dropped to his knees and asked God for help. “All right. I’ve had enough. I’ll do anything. I’ll walk backwards with my ass on fire.”

Going All In

This time was different. Joe did 170 meetings in 90 days, completed all 12 steps in 90 days, and started sponsoring other men in the same timeframe. Service became his lifeline – not just attending meetings, but taking commitments, showing up to business meetings, and letting people actually know him. “I was never doing all three legacies,” he says of unity, service, and recovery. “I was always leaving one on the table.”

“Surrender to win – who knew? It seems so counterintuitive, but that’s where all the power lies.”

From Rock Bottom to 1,100 Stores

Forty-five days after that jail cell, Joe brought his homemade sauce to a Saturday speaker meeting. A newcomer tasted it and said, “You should sell this.” So he did. Within six months he was in 15 stores. Today, 1,100 stores are waiting for his next production run, his book is out, and he’s found community with other sober entrepreneurs through Sober Founders. Life on life’s terms – hard sometimes, wildly blessed always.

Action Items

• If you’ve been trying sobriety on half measures, consider what full surrender actually looks like for you
• Find a community that gets ALL of who you are – including your professional life (look into Sober Founders if you’re an entrepreneur)
• Try manifestation as a practical tool: visualize the outcome, then take massive action
• Work all three legacies: unity, service, AND recovery – not just one or two
• Start your day with gratitude before anything else
• Get honest with your sponsor about the things you’ve never told anyone – secrets keep us sick
• Pick up “From Bars to Jars” by Joe Gallagher for the full story

Resources Mentioned

• “From Bars to Jars: A Saucy Redemption Story” by Joe Gallagher 
• “Drop the Rock” by Bill P., Todd W., and Sara S.
• “Think and Grow Rich” by Napoleon Hill
• “How to Win Friends and Influence People” by Dale Carnegie
• “Awaken the Giant Within” by Tony Robbins
• “Do What You Love and the Money Will Follow” by Marsha Sinetar
• “E-Squared” by Pam Grout
• Sober Founders with Andrew Lassise – soberfounders.org

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Grab your copy here: https://www.soberlifeschool.com

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https://www.makesobrietystick.com

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Joe, thanks so much for joining me today. Oh, thank you for having me. This is an honor and privilege really. I’m super excited. , We were just chatting before. We’re gonna have a lot of fun. This is a no pressure, fun, fun exercise for you. Okay. Fire away. I’m ready. So we, I like to start with what I call the lightning round, which is actually very slow.

And I’m curious, like, when you first got sober, were there any books that really helped you early on? Drop the Rock was one of them for sure. That’s pretty common, right? On the sixth step. Yeah. And then I’ve been reading a lot of Napoleon Hill and manifestation type books, hell yeah … yeah. Think and Grow Rich probably. Yeah. How to Win Friends and Influence People, Dale Carnegie, Awaken the Giant Within, Do What You Love and the Money Will Follow. All kinds of stuff. Yeah. A lot of self-help stuff. Yeah. I was just looking through my YouTube analytics, and I didn’t realize it.

Do you know who Pam Grout is? No. [00:01:00] I’m gonna space on the name of her book. I’ll have to put it in the… I think it was called E Squared. It was, like, seven experiments to… It was, like, practicing manifestation stuff. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I feel like I, I’ll probably recognize it. Yeah. Yeah. E Squared, I think it was.

That was one of my most popular episodes. Manifesting is… You know- Yeah … what’s so funny? It’s really I know you’re religious, right? Is that fair? Yeah. Christian. Yeah. Christian. Okay. And there’s this line in the Bible. It’s “Come boldly to the throne.”

“Ask and you shall receive.” Okay. These are all sort of ideas that are sort of- Yes … bl- based in manifestation. It’s like if you believe, it happens. Correct. Yes. It’s like visualization and belief and all that stuff. Super good. Yeah. If it wasn’t for Neville Goddard and Napoleon Hill I don’t know if I would’ve gotten into the stores with my spaghetti sauce.

I actually utilized that. I went in with a prototype- Me too … before I even talked to the manager, and put it up on the jar, or put the jar on the shelf and took pictures. Then I went outside. There was a [00:02:00] homeless lady digging through the trash. I gave her $10 to shoot a video outside the Piggly Wiggly with the jar.

The next day I came and talked to the managers, and they ordered six cases, oh my gosh. That is super creative. I gotta shake things up a little bit, yeah. I love that you’re the fire, ready, aim kind of guy. You’re massive action. I love that about you. Yes, definitely.

Yeah okay, so those are some good books. I love front loading the episode with a lot of resources. I’m a total book junkie, information junkie, so that- we’re off to a good start there. Do you h- or if you look back on your sobriety, do you have a go-to quote or theme? And to buy you a little time, mine’s obviously one day at a time.

That’s something that has helped me for m- many decades already. Yeah. Yeah, I do, actually. One of my old sponsors who passed away he used to say, “If you’re gonna, if you’re gonna pray, why worry? If you’re gonna worry, why pray?” That’s a good one. Yeah. Love that. [00:03:00] Yeah. Love that. In terms of self-care that you do to support your sobriety, do you have a morning routine, a set of weekly meetings you go to?

What does that look like for you? I do, yeah. There’s five things I do every day. First things first, I wake up, I say, “Thank you, God. Thank you, God. Thank you, God,” “Another day,” right? And then I go make my coffee, go into the garage, smoke my cigarette. I’m not proud of that. I’m trying to kick that too, but- I’m not proud of that.

It’s too much right now. I can’t quit yet. But, so then I’m reading the daily reflections upon awakening, and then I start texting inspirational stuff to my group of guys. Get my ass to a meeting. I’m still going to about six, seven meetings a week. And talk to my sponsor. Yeah.

That’s all good. How long have you been sober? March 5th was two years. Oh, congratulations. Thank you. Thank you, yeah. That’s… Dude, that’s a big deal. The first- Yeah … year was, flew by, and then, and not so many challenges. There was, but the second year was way harder, I gotta say.

Was it? How [00:04:00] come? I don’t know. Just as I was getting closer to the second year that anniversary, it just seemed man, the sky was falling. One thing after another, all kinds of life on life term stuff happening all at once, and I was- … completely overwhelmed. But thankfully, the work I’ve put in, I’ve been taking out insurance, yeah … so I was able to get through it, but it was tough. Yeah. That’s a good point. The first year is foundation building so that you can tolerate the rest and- Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That’s good, yeah. Th- and I appreciate you sharing what’s hard too, ’cause a lot of times people wanna get on here and talk about how rosy everything is, but that’s not real life.

Yeah. I wish, but no. And actually, though if you can’t find the blessing, look for the lesson, right? So- Yeah … the things that were hard to get through there’s a silver lining in all of it because it, healed some relationships and gave me new perspectives. You know what’s funny?

When- When somebody that somebody like you who’s in recovery and, is not, [00:05:00] is willing to have more conversations other than small talk. When someone like you asks me, “How are you?” I’m always torn because it’s like there’s some of each. And if I know you enough I’ll be like, “Yeah, there’s some of each,” ’cause I’m, on one hand I am wildly blessed. Yes. Wildly blessed, right? I had kids with the love of my life. We’ve been together for almost, 32 year- well, a long time. And our, we have a peaceful household. I don’t have any d- you know what I mean? I’m wildly- Yeah … blessed. On the other hand, life is hard sometimes in some areas, so it’s tricky sometimes to hold both truths at the same time.

Is- I agree … I could see how for you it’s like wildly blessed, grateful that you don’t have to use or drink or whatever anymore. Yes. G- grateful. On the other hand, wow, life can be really challenging sometimes. Yeah, it really can. And it’s I wanna complain when those things are going on.

And but then I’m quickly reminded of [00:06:00] what it was like two years ago, yeah. The problems that I’m facing today are essentially all luxury problems, and but then there’s this weird spot when things are just okay, it’s something’s wrong. And then- Your nervous system-

and then I make things worse … isn’t used to that. Yeah. And then I gotta make something worse, and then I gotta, meddle with it and make it a real problem. Love that. That’s how we are, right? Yeah. Another way to position that is that we are continually growing and evolving, and whenever we’re stepping into that next level it’s always painful.

Yes. Yeah. And pain has been my greatest motivator, that’s- Yeah … that’s my greatest teacher. Yeah … I don’t learn, I don’t learn unless it’s painful. Me either. So funny. Let’s talk a little bit about how we got here. I’m always curious family of origin stuff, what life was like as a childhood what did your dad do, did you have siblings?

However you wanna address that. Yeah. I have two parents. They’re still together, still married. I think they’re coming up on 45 years. [00:07:00] Wow. My, my father’s 68, my mother’s 69. I’ve got a younger brother. And I just I just love him to death. Our childhood was rough. We were dirt poor.

My father active addiction, alcoholic, right? He’s since recovered w- without a program so he still has that irritable, restless discontent- A lot, right? Which is challenging, which I probably should go to Al-Anon at some point, but no, I just spent two months with them. All, w- for the first time in over 20 years, me and my brother, my mother, and my father were in the same, under the same roof for two months.

Wow, that’s amazing. Yeah, and a lot happened. It was very hard emotionally but I’ve had spiritual experiences along the way while witnessing their health in degradation, that was har- hard for me to see. I haven’t seen them in 10 years, so yeah, a lot has happened- Well-

that I wasn’t aware of. Wow. What kept you away for 10 years? So I moved from Connecticut to Charleston, South Carolina back in 2014, and I just haven’t been in a position to go back. It’s [00:08:00] been, I’ve been in survival mode, due, mainly due to my bad decisions and alcoholism, yeah. I do know. Yeah. That’s a, that’s not an uncommon story. How old were you how old were you when you started drinking or using? 13. Yeah. 12, 13, yeah. Gee, it’s like the… 13, 14 seems to be like the magic number. Yeah. Yep. And it was innocent at that point, so I thought, ’cause I was at a c- cousin’s wedding and they offered me champagne.

That was my first sip. And- At 13 years old. Yeah. And they thought it was a riot, I didn’t just have one glass of champagne, let me let me make that clear. Yeah. Every chance I got. Every chance I got- Yeah … I was stealing stuff off tables and I was hammered. Yeah. It’s funny how, once you take that first sip and you start feeling the the warmth spread- Yeah

and it’s “Oh, I want more of this.” What was going on for you that, so your dad was an alcoholic yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, heroin and alcohol, cocaine. Wow, and your mom [00:09:00] was able to hang in there that whole time? Yeah, and she was essentially sober. She doesn’t have a problem.

All four or five of her brothers, she’s one of six, all five of her brothers were alcoholic and addicts, and so she refused, she wasn’t gonna go down… And both my grandparents, so she was so afraid of, going down that road. So she, yeah, she held it together. Isn’t that interesting?

I often feel like, whatever you grow up with, like whatever love feels like when you’re growing up, that sort of… You, we recreate that in our adult life. So it’s interesting. Does- not surprising that, she ended up marrying somebody that had all the traits, right? I’m sure that felt very familiar to her.

Familiar, yeah, I think that’s exactly what happened. And, she saw something in my father, she saw the potential. She saw past the, the addictions. Yeah, potential. That’s a- Yeah … that’s a slippery slope sometimes, huh? Yeah, definitely. And I apologize, there’s a train about 25 yards from my house, so if you hear the train, the- I [00:10:00] don’t hear a thing.

We got it right. The train was on my fourth step, by the way. I understand. I don’t know how to make amends to it in the ninth step, but maybe just stop complaining about it. Not everything requires an amends. That’s so funny. So let me just take you back a little bit to your childhood because I feel like it’s the events that happen in childhood that sure to influence our level of self-esteem, what we feel like we’re worth, it sometimes in- instills a level of drive within us.

It dr- it develops this need like this pain that we feel like we need to escape from. What was the pain like that you experienced that was at the root of your addiction? This is hard. I was sexually molested when I was younger. And I was getting picked on a lot, bullied and stuff in school.

I was introverted and… But then, so once I started drinking, I started becoming the extrovert. But to an extreme. And started acting out and, there was a lot of, there was [00:11:00] some violence in my house, you know- … that I could remember clearly. Like s- things getting smashed, phones getting ripped off walls and, sliding doors.

Glass everywhere. Just that kind of stuff. So I was on edge, so had that drink, got to breathe, and then I kept on recreating myself, new groups of friends. I was like a chameleon going h- you know? But I was all surface level if you got too close, I was gonna explode.

I was gonna cause some kind of, scene, ’cause I didn’t want anybody to know me, so and then I ch- and then I s- I picked up a guitar at the age of 15, starting writing feverishly, and that’s where I was able to channel- … some emotions. And, at first it was good, it was kinda like therapy, right? I was a- at least able to talk about it in a way that was cryptic, and poetic, but it meant something to me. It was special, right? But once I started getting really good and started getting the applause and all that stuff, it went all to my head, and it just accelerated my addictions.

Yeah, that’s not [00:12:00] uncommon. Did you tell your parents about what was happening to you? No? No, I didn’t tell anybody until two years ago. Oh, okay. Yeah. Interesting. And that’s when you were able… Was that the whole drop the rock as you shared your secrets and- yeah. I finally felt comfortable with another man, my sponsor.

Yeah. I didn’t think he was, I didn’t think he was gonna hurt me. I trusted him. Yeah, that is so important. And thank you so much for talking about that. I feel like that is one of the taboo subjects for men, but it happens… I can’t tell you how many 420, 430 episodes I’ve done, it is a reoccurring theme.

Yeah. It happens so much, and men are just not talking about it, so thank you so much for being willing to talk about that. Y- no, it’s it’s like my responsibility, my… and a privilege, right? To share that pain with other people. Because I’ve encountered a lot more people since being vocal about it that have experienced it, and I could come to them, with understanding.

[00:13:00] Yeah. Yeah, it’s a very confusing experience. And I think it really… We blame ourselves, yeah … sometimes. At one point, I was so confused, I thought m- maybe I wanted it in a way, maybe I w- I left myself vulnerable on purpose, but that’s not the case, but what I do think is that those people that were doing that stuff were hurt, too, in some way, or spiritually sick. Yeah, for sure. So I’ve been able, I’ve been able to, process it in a healthy way. Have you reached a place of forgiveness yet? Or are you just at peace with reality?

No, I f- I forgive them. I’ve done some stupid, crazy, hurtful things, yeah. So I get it. And so I can forgive. And i- you know, that’s, again, biblical, too. Yeah. I have to. Yeah. What was the most confusing or hardest part about the forgiveness process for you? It was really forgiving myself, not so much about those situations it was the [00:14:00] innocent people that got hurt as a result of my, some of my actions, that’s what I had a hard time forgiving myself for. Yeah. Self-forgiveness is so important. That’s a really important part of the healing process.

Yeah. Yeah. So how old were you… So you started drinking when you were about 13 years old, and I’m sure between 13 and two years ago, there was a lot of drama. Oh, man. Phew. There’s a whole book about the drama. Oh, that’s right. Can you hold that up again? That’s right, I forgot to mention that you are the author of From Bars to Jars.

Is there a tagline? A saucy redemption story. A saucy redemption story. I love that. I love that. How long ago did you publish that book? Oh, what was it? May 30th, 2025. Nice. Congratulations. Yeah, no, yeah. Thank you. Thank you. It’s it was so much fun, and I’d never, I never [00:15:00] anticipated writing a novel, right?

Like, when I started writing, it was really about getting into the food manufacturing industry. It wasn’t about everything, yeah, about everything. Yeah. Yeah. But I was like, I’m working third shift at a commissary kitchen bottling sauce by hand with a bunch of people from the sober house, and, somebody made a suggestion that, “You should write a book,” how you’re doing all this.

‘Cause n- nobody understood, like how the hell did you get into this? Like, how did this happen, right? So I started writing, but it’s okay if I’m explaining that, like, how it happened, I gotta go back, because- … it’s, there’s been a lot that has happened to get to where I’m at.

Yeah, absolutely. So when did you decide… I’m sure, it’s like fun with problems, and then all problems at the end. What were your… what were some of the stories around “I gotta quit”? So I was physically and spiritually dead. That last relapse lasted two years. I came into the program in 2010 [00:16:00] after the seventh suicide attempt, and that’s where I- Oh, wow

I heard the message, right? And that’s where I f- I first identified as maybe I’m an alcoholic, so I was up in the third floor psych unit at Yale New Haven Hospital, and they brought a meeting in. And so right after that, I started, I went to my first meeting. My first marriage was on the rocks.

So part of the motivation was to try to save that marriage ’cause I had two kids with my ex, and I knew I was not a good father, not a good husband. I was, I was still in that mentality of live fast, die young, as a, Music was everything to me. That was my identity, the stars, fame and fortune.

That was my ambitions. That was what was really most important to me and the life that came with it, the partying and everything that was it. So I didn’t know how to love another human being at that point, even with kids, yeah. So yeah, countless vain attempts.

After that first meeting, I tried to prove that I could drink like normal people for the next 20 years. Yeah. Wow. [00:17:00] Got kidnapped in the Bahamas on my honeymoon. Yeah. What? Yeah. And that was a tip of the… That, I wish I knew at that moment that I really had a problem with alcohol, and it wasn’t.

It wasn’t until six years into my marriage that I started looking for help. Yeah. And because you had some exposure to 12 step, you decided to go back? Yeah, I kept on going back. So I would fall down, get back up, fall down, get back up, so I would get a month, two months, 90 days, back out, I wasn’t able, I wasn’t I was half measures all day, I wanted what you guys had, but I wasn’t willing to do everything you were doing. I, I would take a little bit and leave the rest, and I got it from here. Yeah, that doesn’t work out too well most of the time.

No. Terrible. Terrible. I don’t recommend it. That works out terrible. Yeah. And did you have any, like resistance? It sounds like there may have been some resistance. I’m always interested in what were the obstacles? Like, when I first got sober, I showed up to a meeting, they were talking about God, and I was like, “Oh, no, if this is what this is gonna be, I’m not gonna be able to do it.”

Did you [00:18:00] have any experiences like that? I was pretending like I was okay with the God idea, but- … truth be told, y- my first experience with that sexual trauma was in a church. Oh, no. So I was I was a- angry to say the least, and I also felt entitled to get away with stuff that that people that don’t go through that, wouldn’t be entitled to.

What do you mean? If that makes sense. I feel if you haven’t gone through that, y- you didn’t deserve to push the envelope to the extremes, i- … I kept on bringing myself to that line where, “Okay, God, if you’re there, all right, i- you know you’re gonna do this, because this is wrong that what happened to me.”

“You’re gonna let me do this.” Oh, I see. But I kept on- So it was m- having God redeem himself or herself or itself. Correct. Yeah. Prove it. Yeah. If you really love me- Yeah … prove it. Oh, yeah. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Testing, testing God to see if God is real. And testing the people that said they love me.

I was, I didn’t [00:19:00] believe anybody really loved me. If they really loved me, they’d let me drink myself to death is what my mentality was. Yeah. Yeah. It’s just that we get so twisted up in the disease. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So what, so if we fast-forward to did you have a rock bottom, a moment of cl- I’m sure you had many rock bottoms it sounds like.

Seven suicide attempts? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So what do you think I know it was probably cumulative, right? All the- … experiences that you had finally tipped the scales, and what was the last d- excuse me, what was the last day like for you? So I’m getting out of jail for the fifth time, after a domestic violence charge, which is something I swore I would never get.

Every arrest I said I would never- I would never done that, ’cause I wasn’t in my right mind. So I kept on blaming, the alcohol. I’ll blame the alcohol. But this last arrest, now the charges are stacked up and it wasn’t looking good. I got really scared [00:20:00] that I was gonna, ch- live the rest of my life in jail.

I thought that’s where it was heading, right? On top of that, I was puking up blood, so the physical aspect of it was now reaching a point where it was life-threatening, wow. I felt like my back was against the wall, and in that jail cell, I dropped to my knees in front of everybody and humbly asked God for help.

And I- … and so the court was gonna order me to go to meetings anyway, and it had been two years since I’d been to a meeting, and a couple old-timers, the guy I was telling you about, who said that quote, Robert Baxter, who I wrote all about in my book, he was like a father figure to me, and he was getting on in age.

So it’s “If I don’t go back, I might never see them again,” wow. So I got- Enough is enough … yeah, so then I started going back before I got the court order. By the time the court order came, I was already three months sober. Oh, wow. That’s amazing. So you just went all in? Did you do all the suggestions- Yes

and no half measures- Yes … and all the things? Yeah. I waved my white flag. “All [00:21:00] right.” Surrender. “I’ve had enough, okay? I can’t do this. I need help.” Yeah. Yeah. “I’ll do anything. I’ll walk backwards with my ass on fire.” Yeah. Yeah. Listen, when you’re ready to surrender and start doing all the work, there’s something magical about that energy of surrender.

Yeah. Surrender to win. Who knew? Yeah. Yeah. Seems so counterintuitive, but that’s where all the power lies. Yeah. Yep. So you did the 90 in 90. You did 12 steps with your sponsor. You did the inventory. You did the making amends. Was there any amends on there that was particularly hard or interesting or…

we get these God shots sometimes. A lot of it was living amends, but yeah, I did all that. I did 170 meetings in 90 days. I was all in, all in, yeah. And it became, almost an obsession. Especially once I started feeling better, and it’s and then I just- started throwing myself more and more into service. My, my sponsor’s a big service junkie, yeah … and that’s something I never really [00:22:00] understood all the years going, is the three the three legacies, I was only- Yeah … I was only dipping my toe in the water on one or two at a time.

I was never doing all three, but is it honesty, service, and…? Unity, service, and recovery. Unity, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very cool. I was never feeling part of. I was never, joining a home group and all that. There’s- Yeah … meetings that I would go to a lot, but I never really got involved, I would stay on the outskirts. I wasn’t going to the business meetings. I wasn’t helping make the decisions for a group, there is something about service meetings that really makes you feel like you’re a part of. Yeah. Yeah. Did I say service meetings? A service positions I meant. Commitments. Having a commitment, being accountable. Having a commitment, yeah. And letting people know me and, yeah. It was it was a definitely a different, different way to approach this than I had in the past. Yeah. I- have you ever had this experience where you see people at meetings and you’re like, “I don’t think I’d be friends with those people,” and then you do a service commitment together, and by the end of your service commitment you’re like best friends?

Yes. Yeah. Definitely. Yep. Yeah, that’s so true. [00:23:00] That happened a lot working at the food bank. Really? Food bank on Tuesday mornings or the American Legion, washing dishes or something. Yeah. Yeah, I became friends with all those people, yeah. Yeah. I felt like that’s what really made me feel a part of, ’cause then suddenly you go to other meetings.

I don’t know, it was a interesting experience. I did not expect that. Yeah. I always thought I was so unique, so different, I had a really hard time feeling relatable, but it wasn’t until like I started sharing my story openly that I felt relatable. Yeah. Funny how that happens.

You share s- share some gnarly stuff and then somebody goes, “Yeah, me too,” and you’re like, “What?” Yeah, yeah, that’s cool. That’s cool. Okay, so you get sober, and so that was like your first year of sobriety where you’re really like doing the deal, doing all the things, all the ste- all the steps. Did you get through the 12 steps in a year?

Yeah, within 90, 90 days I started sponsoring other guys. Within 90 days? That’s amazing. Yeah. Yeah. I w- I’m telling you, I went hard and heavy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [00:24:00] And I knew if I didn’t, if I didn’t start giving what was freely given to me, if I didn’t start giving it away, I was a dead man, we did this before, yeah. Yeah, it became the life, it became that life force. The bright spot in my life was- Yeah … the service, yeah. Yeah, that’s amazing. So you started transitioning to doing your own business. Was it before you got sober or in s- since you got sober? No, this is funny. I couldn’t even get a job at Walmart because of all the charges.

So- … I’m two months sober and- This is like forced entrepreneurship … yeah, yes. Yeah. Necessity is the mother of invention, right? Yes, sir. So I’m like, ah, I’m two months sober and I bring a jar of spaghetti sauce. I made eggplant Parmesan and spaghetti and meatballs, and I brought it to a meeting.

We have this eating speaker meeting on the second Saturday of every month. So my sponsor says, “Hey, why don’t you make something for the group?” So I did, and a newcomer says, “Man, [00:25:00] this is the best sauce I’ve ever had. W- where’d you… W- why don’t you just sell this stuff? You should sell this.”

I’m like- What? I never thought of that. Let me take a look into that, right? So then I I made a prototype, designed a label, look- did all my homework, research, and bottled it safely. So I have this prototype now, and I go into the Piggly Wiggly, I put it up on the shelf, and I, I was telling you, I took pictures and then the next day they ordered six cases.

So yeah, I was in business. That’s amazing. So the funny thing about entrepreneurship is we are a, people that are sober, we’re we c- we’re dealing with a lot, right? We got a lot of trauma, we got a lot of… We gotta, n- need to hustle, we’re under a lot of pressure, and we need to be able to regulate our nervous system- and deal with all the emotional stuff that comes up as you’re growing, right? Yeah. You’re a business owner, you’re kinda stepping into this identity, you’re trying to make some money and, do all that stuff. It’s a rollercoaster. Yeah, especially because of the growth [00:26:00] trajectory that was unprecedented.

I, we had no idea. Me and my father were baffled, because that same day that I got that first store, he’s… My father says are there any s- other stores around?” I’m like, “Yeah, there’s one right down the street.” He’s “Go there, see what happens.” I did. They ordered six cases. And now at this time, I’m making this stuff in my house.

I have a galley kitchen the size of a closet, and there’s sauce on the ceiling, on the cabinets, every- there’s stacks of boxes in the living room. My wife is, she’s had it, right? And that was day one, day one. So I’m like, “How are we gonna do it?” And there, there’s 47 Piggly Wigglys in South Carolina.

So my father’s “I want you to hit up four a week,” so I started doing that. Within two months of operations, I was in seven stores. Within six months, I was in 15 stores, and then I started getting calls from all the major retailers, and they were onboarding me like it was nothing. Wow, that’s crazy.

So now, are… So where are you in your development phase? Are, you’re looking for funding? You need to upscale your manufacturing and production? Yeah, so [00:27:00] I end up renting a commissary kitchen, for about eight months of operation. And I was, I had some people from the sober house helping me, and I would pay them under the table and whatever.

Oh, you didn’t hear that. Edit that. Oh, shoot. But, yeah. Yeah, don’t say that. But, I… D- don’t worry, you are not alone. I’ve had to do that many times. I was chasing my tail at this commissary kitchen. There’s no machines, and 300, 400 jars a night was my max. And that was not even enough to handle the 15 stores.

Wow. So I was like, I gotta do something here,” and in retrospect, a- after, going through this process I realize all the other food entrepreneurs start with a co-manufacturer. They have a recipe and they bring it to a co-manufacturer to- ramp up production, so I kinda did it backwards. And so now I start calling the, all these co-packers, and it was a process that I was not prepared for. And, they didn’t wanna stick to the recipe. They wanted to, cut corners and, and change. So I wasn’t getting all warm [00:28:00] and fuzzy, and it was like the relationships, there was none.

It was all transactional. They didn’t care about my product. They didn’t care about the story. They didn’t care about the brand. I’m like, “No, I need a partner,” so I said, “You know what? Screw it. I’m gonna build a farm. I’m gonna find an investor. I’m gonna build a farm, do this hybrid nonprofit business model.”

So I found 1,700 acres, and I was gonna grow all the crops, build a facility, handle all my distribution, and have events and sober retreats and stuff like that. But it was a $14.6 million property, 1,700 acres. And, unrealistically I thought, “Okay I’ll just get on Shark Tank or something,” and I, I actually got on the phone with the producers. They wanted me on the show because the story was crazy. But me saying I need $25 million to get this thing going, they’re like, “What?” We don’t do that here,” so I submitted to all kinds of other competitions.

Anyway, a year goes by, and that property ended up going, getting taken down off the market. So I’m like, “Okay, I guess that wasn’t meant to be,” yeah. But now I just recently hooked up with some [00:29:00] investors, and I found a co-packer who’s not gonna change my recipe. And yeah, we’re looking at 100,000 units for that first run.

For the first run. That is amazing. Yeah, because there’s 1,100 stores waiting right now. Wow. That is so exciting. It is. It is really exciting. But, in this year, right? So shut down the kitchen February 2025 to now, so much more has happened without the sauce even being out there, the product is dwindling off these shelves of the stores that it’s in. Got all these people waiting. I wrote the book, started doing podcasts and book signings and, and now I’m even doing perfume. Okay, homey, you gotta focus. I know, right? That’s what everybody says, but I’m me, this is me. I pivot- Yeah … I adapt, I, create. I’m constantly creating. Yeah. No, you are a entrepreneur through and through. [00:30:00] Serial entrepreneur. Psychotic. Yeah. Most of us are. Yeah. Yeah. No, I’m really excited for you. I think with the support and investors and all that, you’re g- you’re gonna do great, and I think this could be, like, the home run that you need to sorta fund all your other projects.

That’s typically what happens, right? Yeah, like they all are supportive of each other. All these different verticals- Yeah … like I call it o- omni-directional marketing, because at the focal point of everything is this guy right here, the book, yeah. That is the brand, it’s that guy. So every…

Y- you find the sauce, you find the book, you find the book, you find the sauce, you find the book- Yeah … you find everything, so- Yeah … it’s all connected. Yeah, it’s all connected. I love that. So as you go through this process, is it the morning routine that’s really helping you- Yes, that-

stay grounded? That keeps me grounded. Yeah, because, this could get lonely being an entrepreneur- … and sobriety, because I- that’s one of the challenges too that I should bring up, is [00:31:00] talking about problems in business in an open meeting with people that really don’t understand, unless they’re operating, which some of them are.

But a lot of those people stay quiet, and and I was finding that the only advice I was getting about business was coming from people that weren’t really qualified to give it, and that- … would drive me nuts, like- Yeah … so a l- thank God for the Sober Founders and Andrew, because- Yeah

that, that has totally gave me so much comfort and peace so I don’t feel like an alien anymore, which- Yeah, we definitely need to find our meeting. I had Andrew on the podcast, so by the time this comes out, his episode will have come out too. But that’s been a great place to be able to, get help from people that are sober and in business to…

it’s like all the… It’s curing the loneliness. It’s getting advice from people who have experience. But just the connection and community is really important too. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Do you know the story of how me and [00:32:00] Andrew connected? I don’t. No? Oh, my… This was such a divine intervention.

I was on this podcast called The Joy of the Hang with Sharon Stevenson probably eight months ago when my book first came out. She texted me about about a month and a half ago when I was up in Connecticut with my parents. And now mind you, during that time I’m emotionally distraught, because my father had a stroke.

He’s got Bell’s palsy. He can’t walk. He’s, immobilized, my mother’s got COPD, emphysema, got breathing tubes, and- You know, so I’m a mess. And, I’m in Connecticut and I don’t have a network of sober people. I’m trying to go to meetings there, but I’m… it’s just not clicking.

I left my comfort zone in Charleston where I have a foundation. Anyway, Sharon texts me, says, “Hey, I really think you should meet this guy I’m gonna have him on my podcast. His name’s Andrew.” She sent me that text and I just brushed it off. I didn’t even, i’m like, “I don’t have, I don’t have time for this, I can’t be meeting… I, I got my parents.” That’s [00:33:00] what… I’m tunnel vision, right? Trying to be present. Anyway, the episode comes out and I see it on LinkedIn and I said, “You know what? Let me check it out.” Within the first five minutes I’m like, “Holy shit. Yes, I gotta talk to this dude right now,” ’cause what he was talking about was so relevant to what I was feeling.

I’m like, “Let me call this guy.” So I call him and we just… I was bawling my eyes out. And we were having this great, profound conversation, like so inspiring, and he’s “Joe, I don’t mean to cut you off, but in five minutes I gotta accept an award for the se- sober founders and the impact it has on other people, and you just totally ruined my speech because this conversation, I can not talk about it when I get this award.”

So- … I was like, “No bro, just go. Do your thing,” and then we’ve stayed in touch ever since, and I started coming to that Thursday meeting. Yeah. No, I love it, and I love that you… I was able to hand off the hosting to you. I felt like it was in good hands. Yeah. Thank- I was a mess last week. I… it was, it was- You did great.

Thank you. Thank you. I [00:34:00] didn’t feel that way, but- Did you feel nervous? Well- You didn’t look it. No, I wasn’t nervous, but it was just a lot. ‘Cause I was… it was my fault because I’m trying to do it from my phone, oh, and so I’m like scrolling- Yeah, can’t see … I can’t see what’s going on.

I… people are having their hands up and I’m not calling on them. I’m like, “Shit, they’re gonna be mad at me,” no, it’s fine. No, it was good. It was a good meeting. Yeah, I love that. It’ll be better this, it’ll be better this week. Yeah. Every- or it’s always a little bit of improvement every time, right?

How long did you do it for? I did it for a month. Yeah. Okay. I di- I do a lot of hosting meetings and things like that, so I’m like, yeah, I’m, I need to pass this off. I can’t be hosting every meeting I go to. Yeah. And I chair a lot of meetings at my home group and I have to, i’m getting, run down.

I’m getting like- Yeah … it’s like corralling cats sometimes, so I’m like- Yeah … “You know what? I gotta take a break from that.” So when this opportunity came up, I’m like, “Yes, I’m doing it.” Yeah, no, this is a good one, definitely. Listen, I feel like we could chat all day, but I, listen, I wanna tell you I’m so [00:35:00] proud of you.

Like I don’t mean to be condescending, but like I’m really inspired by you. It’s like you’ve come so far. I feel so inspired. It’s this is the message of hope that people need, that no matter how far down the scale we have gone, we can turn our lives around, and your future looks bright.

You I just appreciate your heart and your faith so much, and I’m so glad we get to be friends and I get to watch this journey. I love seeing you take off here. You’re such a light. Thank you for, saying that. It’s, I need the en- all the encouragement I can get, and it is, like I said in the beginning, such an honor and a privilege to be able to give something, be useful today, and, Yeah … there’s been a lot of feedback like that, people that have been touched by my story. God is, doing some stuff, and I just- God is doing some stuff. Amen to that. Listen, we’ll go ahead and land the plane, but thanks again for coming on, and just love your story.

And listen, I want you to know you got me in your corner. Ah, thank you. Thank you so much. God bless you. You too. Have a great [00:36:00] day.