{"id":5925,"date":"2025-12-23T15:51:03","date_gmt":"2025-12-23T23:51:03","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/odaatchat.com\/?p=5925"},"modified":"2025-12-29T11:18:05","modified_gmt":"2025-12-29T19:18:05","slug":"managing-intrusive-thoughts-anxiety-and-depression-in-sobriety","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/odaatchat.com\/index.php\/2025\/12\/23\/managing-intrusive-thoughts-anxiety-and-depression-in-sobriety\/","title":{"rendered":"Managing Intrusive Thoughts, Anxiety, and Depression In Sobriety"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<p class=\"\">One of the biggest takeaways from this conversation with Emma is that anxiety, depression, and burnout aren\u2019t character flaws\u2014<em><strong>they\u2019re nervous system responses to feeling unsafe<\/strong><\/em>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">We talked about how depression often mirrors the nervous system\u2019s shutdown response, and how anxiety shows up as fight-or-flight. When your body feels overwhelmed for too long, it doesn\u2019t motivate you\u2014it protects you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Why Worry Keeps You Stuck<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Emma explained that worry is actually <em>reinforced behavior<\/em>. When we worry and nothing bad happens, our brain learns, <em>\u201cThat worked\u2014do it again.\u201d<\/em> Over time, worry becomes automatic.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">This is why telling yourself to \u201cjust stop worrying\u201d never works.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">One Tool That Can Reduce Anxiety by Up to 80%<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">One of the most practical tools we discussed is Scheduled Worry:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Instead of worrying all day, you train your brain to worry at a specific time\u2014usually 10\u201315 minutes in the afternoon. Outside of that window, you gently remind yourself, <em>\u201cI\u2019ll deal with this at 5pm.\u201d<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">This retrains the brain instead of fighting it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Burnout and Fear-Based Fuel<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Emma shared how she burned out after years of pushing herself\u2014weekly YouTube videos, pregnancy, parenting, and running a business. What stood out most was this idea:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Fear is a dirty fuel source.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">When we\u2019re driven by fear\u2014of failure, not being enough, or letting others down\u2014we eventually crash. Healing often means switching fuel sources to trust, values, and self-permission to slow down.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">\u2705 Action Steps for Listeners<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<ol class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li class=\"\">Set a daily check-in alarm (once an hour) to notice:<br>\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li class=\"\">What am I thinking?<br><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li class=\"\">What am I feeling?<br><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li class=\"\">What\u2019s happening in my body?<br><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li class=\"\">Practice willingness instead of avoidance<br>Let the feeling exist without trying to fix it.<br><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li class=\"\">Try Scheduled Worry for 7 days<br>10\u201315 minutes\/day, written out.<br><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li class=\"\">Clarify your locus of control<br>Separate what you <em>can<\/em> control from what you can\u2019t.<br><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li class=\"\">Choose one value-aligned action<br>Small, doable, and grounded\u2014not fear-driven.<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>\ud83d\udd17 Resources Mentioned<\/strong><\/h2>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li class=\"\">Therapy in a Nutshell (YouTube)<br><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li class=\"\"><a href=\"https:\/\/amzn.to\/4jfYmYv\" title=\"\">Acceptance &amp; Commitment Therapy (ACT)<\/a><br><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li class=\"\"><a href=\"https:\/\/amzn.to\/44LgCCR\" title=\"\"><em>Burnout<\/em> by Emily Nagoski<\/a><br><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li class=\"\"><a href=\"https:\/\/amzn.to\/4jf298b\" title=\"\"><em>Slow Productivity<\/em> by Cal Newport<\/a><br><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li class=\"\"><em><a href=\"https:\/\/amzn.to\/3MJQQcb\" title=\"\">The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry<\/a><\/em><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li class=\"\"><a href=\"https:\/\/amzn.to\/3Yd7BPn\" title=\"\">The 12 Step Guide for Skeptics by Arlina Allen<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><strong>Guest Contact Info:<\/strong> https:\/\/therapyinanutshell.com\/<\/p>\n\n\n\n<iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"Embed Player\" src=\"https:\/\/play.libsyn.com\/embed\/episode\/id\/39523890\/height\/128\/theme\/modern\/size\/standard\/thumbnail\/yes\/custom-color\/87A93A\/time-start\/00:00:00\/playlist-height\/200\/direction\/backward\/download\/yes\/font-color\/FFFFFF\" height=\"128\" width=\"100%\" scrolling=\"no\" allowfullscreen=\"\" webkitallowfullscreen=\"true\" mozallowfullscreen=\"true\" oallowfullscreen=\"true\" msallowfullscreen=\"true\" style=\"border: none;\"><\/iframe>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<div class=\"jetpack-video-wrapper\"><span class=\"embed-youtube\" style=\"text-align:center; display: block;\"><iframe loading=\"lazy\" class=\"youtube-player\" width=\"640\" height=\"360\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/aho6kaLnabM?version=3&#038;rel=1&#038;showsearch=0&#038;showinfo=1&#038;iv_load_policy=1&#038;fs=1&#038;hl=en-US&#038;autohide=2&#038;wmode=transparent\" allowfullscreen=\"true\" style=\"border:0;\" sandbox=\"allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-popups allow-presentation allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox\"><\/iframe><\/span><\/div>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><strong>\ud83d\udc4a\ud83c\udffcNeed help applying this information to your own life?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Here are 3 ways to get started:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><strong>\ud83c\udf81Free Guide: 30 Tips for Your First 30 Days &#8211; With a printable PDF checklist<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Grab your copy here: <a href=\"https:\/\/www.soberlifeschool.com\">https:\/\/www.soberlifeschool.com<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><strong>\u260e\ufe0fPrivate Coaching: Make Sobriety Stick<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.makesobrietystick.com\">https:\/\/www.makesobrietystick.com<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><strong>Subscribe So You Don\u2019t Miss New Episodes!<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><strong><em>Listen to the episode on<\/em><\/strong><a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/the-one-day-at-a-time-recovery-podcast\/id1212504521\"><strong><em>Apple Podcasts<\/em><\/strong><\/a><strong><em>, <\/em><\/strong><a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/4I23r7DBTpT8XwUUwHRNpB\"><strong><em>Spotify<\/em><\/strong><\/a><strong><em>, or Amazon Music, or you can stream it from my website <\/em><\/strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.odaatchat.com\"><strong><em>HERE<\/em><\/strong><\/a><strong><em>. <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@theonedayatatimepodcast?sub_confirmation=1\" title=\"\">You can also watch the interview on YouTube<\/a>.<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full is-resized\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"295\" height=\"121\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/odaatchat.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/image-14.png?fit=295%2C121&amp;ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-5942\" style=\"width:187px;height:auto\"\/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/the-one-day-at-a-time-recovery-podcast\/id1212504521\"><strong><\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full is-resized\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"217\" height=\"76\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/odaatchat.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/image-15.png?fit=217%2C76&amp;ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-5943\" style=\"width:184px;height:auto\"\/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large is-resized\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1374\" height=\"334\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/odaatchat.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/image-17.png?fit=640%2C156&amp;ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-5945\" style=\"width:183px;height:auto\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/odaatchat.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/image-17.png?w=1374&amp;ssl=1 1374w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/odaatchat.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/image-17.png?resize=300%2C73&amp;ssl=1 300w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/odaatchat.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/image-17.png?resize=1024%2C249&amp;ssl=1 1024w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/odaatchat.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/image-17.png?resize=768%2C187&amp;ssl=1 768w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/odaatchat.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/image-17.png?w=1280&amp;ssl=1 1280w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 640px) 100vw, 640px\" \/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><a href=\"https:\/\/music.amazon.com\/podcasts\/a8eb438c-5af1-493b-99c1-f218e5553aff\/the-one-day-at-a-time-recovery-podcast\"><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"179\" height=\"60\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/odaatchat.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/image-16.png?fit=179%2C60&amp;ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-5944\"\/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@theonedayatatimepodcast\"><strong><\/strong><\/a><strong>&nbsp;<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><strong>Apple: <\/strong><a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/the-one-day-at-a-time-recovery-podcast\/id1212504521\"><strong>https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/the-one-day-at-a-time-recovery-podcast\/id1212504521<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Spotify: <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/4I23r7DBTpT8XwUUwHRNpB\">https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/4I23r7DBTpT8XwUUwHRNpB<\/a>Amazon Music: <a href=\"https:\/\/music.amazon.com\/podcasts\/a8eb438c-5af1-493b-99c1-f218e5553aff\/the-one-day-at-a-time-recovery-podcast\">https:\/\/music.amazon.com\/podcasts\/a8eb438c-5af1-493b-99c1-f218e5553aff\/the-one-day-at-a-time-recovery-podcast<\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/the-one-day-at-a-time-recovery-podcast\/id1212504521\"><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><a href=\"https:\/\/music.amazon.com\/podcasts\/a8eb438c-5af1-493b-99c1-f218e5553aff\/the-one-day-at-a-time-recovery-podcast\"><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@theonedayatatimepodcast\"><strong><\/strong><\/a><strong>&nbsp;<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><strong>Transcript:<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Emma<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Well, Emma, thank you so much for joining me today. Hey, happy to be here. Thanks<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">for having me. Yeah. Emma from therapy in a nutshell.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">To everything about like the logo is like a walnut and that it cracks open and<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">there&#8217;s a brain. I was a genius. That was so creative. Who came up with that?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">I came up with the idea of, because walnuts, like the actual nuts kind of look<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">like brains. They totally do. Yeah. And then my husband did that animation. He&#8217;s an<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">animator. Is he? Is he for hire?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">He&#8217;s busy enough. I&#8217;m sure he is. I&#8217;m the slave driver here. Just cracking the whip<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">on it. Cracking the lip. Good for you. Well, listen, I am super excited to talk to<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">you because your YouTube channel is huge. It&#8217;s got, I think I checked today at 2 .3<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">million. What does that feel like? Does that feel like a huge accomplishment? Oh,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">it&#8217;s so wild. It&#8217;s so hard to even comprehend. So first off, subscribers is a<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">vanity metric. Like, if you compare engagement to subscribers, subscribers, subscribers<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">does not actually mean that much on YouTube. But the reality is, like, millions of<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">people have watched my videos. And I hope have been helped by my videos. And that&#8217;s<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">just like so cool. Like I&#8217;m so so grateful that I get to do this work. I never<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">thought this would happen. I&#8217;m just like a little therapist in Utah. I&#8217;ve got four<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">kids. And I like I just couldn&#8217;t sit still. So I started like making the videos I<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">wished my clients could have. And that turned into this, which is still just,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">yeah, I can&#8217;t really understand it. That&#8217;s so interesting. Well, I have to say<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">you&#8217;re a really good teacher, and I really appreciate the style of your teaching.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">It&#8217;s just, like, super practical. You&#8217;re super relatable. And I love,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">I&#8217;m all about action steps. Like, it&#8217;s important for me to, like, understand the<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">theory. And by the way, today we&#8217;re going to be talking about your most downloaded<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">or watched video intrusive thoughts and overthinking. But I also thought we might be<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">able to touch on, you know, how to process your emotions. I look at everything<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">through the line.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">so much better. Yeah, and that&#8217;s the thing is most of our parents did not have the<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">skills to teach it to us. So we sort of fumble about through life and some of us,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">you know, distract from our pain with addiction issues. I feel like the purpose of<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">addiction is distraction and people do that in a variety of ways. But ultimately it<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">comes down to not being able to process your emotions in a healthy way. So we&#8217;ll<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">definitely touch on that. But I thought we might start with the,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">well, first, I&#8217;m just so curious. What compelled you to become a therapist?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Was it born out of overcoming your own struggles? Well, it&#8217;s such a good question.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">You know, and I think my answer to this is changing regularly as well.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">But like the truth is, like I did struggle with depression as a teenager and a lot<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">of social anxiety. And I felt very kind of helpless and definitely like depressed at<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">times in my early 20s. I wanted to work outside.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">I loved working. I loved being outside. That&#8217;s like one of my safe places. And so<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">I worked at like a youth camp that was like a church youth camp that was very<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">like fun and exciting and like let&#8217;s play and laugh and joke. And like I just was<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">that was like too high energy for me. Like I&#8217;m just like sustain it. Yeah. Like<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">I&#8217;m really introverted. I love like quiet walks in the woods and like one on one<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">conversations. But I don&#8217;t necessarily do big groups. Yeah, over -stimulating.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Yeah, yeah. And I&#8217;m just, like, I&#8217;m just not that extroverted. Which is interesting<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">with this 2 .3 million. Yeah, like, that&#8217;s a really interesting thing. And I think<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">you might be surprised to find that more YouTubers than you would expect are<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">actually very introverted. Like, like 90 % of my work is sitting in my office<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">thinking and writing. Yeah. Like, that&#8217;s what I do. I film 15 minutes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">I mean, I film about a couple hours a month. and the and um<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">phrase for that an introvert extrovert like yeah i really love people i&#8217;m good for<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">an hour or two and then i need to go home and lay down yeah yeah yeah it&#8217;s not<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">like i don&#8217;t like people i just um i really thrive in in a setting um that&#8217;s like<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">smaller and yeah like i love deep and meaningful conversations i love being one -on<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">-one with someone i love talking about like like real stuff and so I ended up<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">working at a um so I worked at that youth camp one year then the next year I was<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">like I want to level up like I want to try this again so I worked at a<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">wilderness therapy program oh my gosh yeah with teenage kids um out in the west<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">desert of Utah and our shifts were eight days on six days off so I was um I was<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">out hiking with a group of eight to 12 usually young boys Um,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">and the program was very relationship oriented. We weren&#8217;t like a punitive program.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">We didn&#8217;t just like punish kids into compliance. We would like talk with them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">That&#8217;s what our job was. Imagine that. Yeah. Like listen to them. Like walk with<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">them. If they refused to like hike, then we&#8217;d just sit next to them and talk to<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">them all day. And like that turned out to be like, I loved it. It was so cool.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">And these kids would see, we&#8217;d see these massive transformations in eight or 12<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">weeks. And I personally just learned so many things that kind of helped, that helped<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">me personally regain a sense of like agency over my life, where before that I felt<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">like really like, oh, my parents made me depressed or I&#8217;m broken or what&#8217;s the<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">matter with me? And after that, I like just my eyes were open to this world of<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">like whoa like if I if I have these different experiences and these different<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">learnings and these different mentors in my life like my life changed forever yeah<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">like I still have moments where I feel down and they&#8217;ll last at the most a couple<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">days where they used to last a couple months yeah so<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">for me. So I wanted to become a therapist. So I wanted to work wilderness therapy<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">forever. I thought, this is my, this is my career path. But I&#8217;d like the being a<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">staff out there was unsustainable. I did, I did work wilderness therapy for over 500<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">nights. Wow. Yeah, like a couple years of my life. And, and then that was when you<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">were young before kids. Yeah, yeah. I was in my like early 20s. Yeah. Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">And then got my degree and ended up never ending up back in wilderness therapy. I<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">worked in a residential center. I worked at private practice. I did some other<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">things. An adventure therapy program.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">But that&#8217;s how I became a therapist. So I mean, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">when I think about wilderness camps, I think about those people who like kidnap the<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">kids in the middle of the night and they take them out is it was it one of those<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">um<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">yes sometimes sometimes the only way parents could safely get their kids into our<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">program was by sending two large escorts to the kids house and bringing them there<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">now um on from the kids perspective i can see how this is really scary and<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">traumatic And from the parents&#8217; perspective, I can see how they&#8217;re trying to save<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">their kids&#8217; life. Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">And, you know, there&#8217;s been a lot of stuff with Paris Hilton and, like, all the,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">there&#8217;s been a big pushback on the therapeutic industry in general. And there&#8217;s some<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">wilderness programs that I know were very much more controlling, much more rigid,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">much more at times abusive, like that absolutely did happen. I worked for two<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">different programs and then another residential treatment. I worked for two residential<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">treatment programs and two wilderness programs. And all of these programs I&#8217;ve worked<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">for, I only choose to work for the ones that are relationship based. So we try to<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">really honor the kids and listen to them and work with their parents and we do<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">systemic therapy. Like we try to change their parents, right?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">And like we treat these kids with, with utmost respect. And so it&#8217;s interesting,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">like, if you compare my time in wilderness therapy, I, you know, I did 500 nights.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">That&#8217;s like multiple years being outside. And I did three restraints where we<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">physically like put our hands on a kid. And that was once because one kid was<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">going to clobber another kid with a log.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">they would be doing multiple restraints a day. And like some of these residential<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">programs are doing multiple restraints every day. And I think that&#8217;s the kind of the<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">different, with the same group of kids, the same drug addicted, acting out,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">oppositional defiant kids, as they&#8217;re called. These other programs were much more<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">forceful and I would say violent compared to the programs I chose to work for.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Yeah, When I asked you that, you looked really sad. Like, it must cause you so<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">much pain to know that these kids and parents that are so desperate for help are<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">sometimes falling into less than ideal programs.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">But listen, I appreciate that you were able to find a program that was in alignment<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">with your goals and values, and you had such positive outcomes. So that&#8217;s a<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">beautiful thing. It&#8217;s important to know that both are out there.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">out there. You know, it&#8217;s kind of interesting as, um, so I&#8217;ve been sober for a<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">long time. And, you know, I raised my kids and like in sobriety, like they&#8217;ve never<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">seen me loaded. Um, but when my younger son had some issues, it was like,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">you would think because I&#8217;ve kind of in the business that I would know what to do.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">But, um, we were in a new state and we didn&#8217;t anybody sort of out here.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">And what&#8217;s available for kids is really elusive. It&#8217;s very vague. So it&#8217;s, you know,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">I really feel for the parents who are trying to find help, like the ones that are<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">desperate that are trying to help their kids, it can be a very harrowing, a very<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">harrowing situation because kids can be so like they think that they&#8217;re invincible.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">they know everything and yeah it&#8217;s just a really hard situation to be in it&#8217;s so<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">tricky yeah and with one of my kids same thing it&#8217;s like i&#8217;m trying to find a<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">therapist for her and i&#8217;m like i don&#8217;t know like this is hard to find like yeah<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">right people you know hard to find therapy for kids listen it&#8217;s hard to find<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">therapy for adults i was just recently interviewing this guy who said that he tried<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">one or two and it wasn&#8217;t working out so instead of<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">was like, wow, what a different way of addressing. But, you know, like in 12 -step,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">I come from, you know, the 12 -step world. And sometimes you have to try a few<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">different sponsors before you find somebody that&#8217;s right for you. But it doesn&#8217;t mean<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">that you give up on the program. It means you, you know, just try working with<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">somebody else. I feel like therapy is like that, too. Like, in order to find a<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">good therapist, you sometimes have to try a bunch of different ones. I think this<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">mindset is so important because, like, the people who succeed do this,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">right? They get out the spreadsheet. They make a study of it. Like, I interviewed<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">my friend Rachel Galvez on my channel, and she, like, she had severe anxiety. Like,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">so bad. She wasn&#8217;t getting out of bed for, like, weeks. She would just, like, she&#8217;d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">go to church sometimes, and she&#8217;d just be shaking and, like, pacing in the halls,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">like, that bad of anxiety. And she tried a couple different medications. She tried a<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">couple different therapists. And she was about ready to give up. And she&#8217;s like, no<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">what? I&#8217;m going to just try some new stuff. And in that video, she talks about<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">like over 20 different things that she tried. And she kept a journal of all the<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">different things that she tried. And now she&#8217;s like functioning really well. Like her<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">anxiety is probably down like 70, 80 percent. Like she&#8217;s doing, I would not say she<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">was like cured and everything&#8217;s all better. But, like, her life&#8217;s pretty good. Yeah,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">like, she gets out of bed. She&#8217;s functioning well. She&#8217;s there for her kids. She&#8217;s<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">not, like, she&#8217;s, she&#8217;s doing great. That&#8217;s amazing. And this process of,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">like, I&#8217;m going to try what I can try. Like, I&#8217;m going to explore. I think it&#8217;s<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">just so crucial. And I think it&#8217;s important to understand as well, like conditions<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">like, like depression or anxiety, I think we think of them as a single diagnosis,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">like, oh, you get diagnosed with the flu, you get diagnosed with depression. This<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">must be caused by a single issue. And the truth is depression is probably much more<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">accumulative situation where a lot of things add up to tell your nervous system that<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">you might as well shut down and give up. And so if we want to treat depression,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">we have to look at it from a lot of angles and be like, okay, how do I help my<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">body be healthier? How do I manage inflammation? How do I manage my stress levels?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">How do I manage my thinking? How do I retrain my nervous system to be more safe<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">more often? And when you think about it that way, like there&#8217;s so much that can be<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">done that adds up in these little doses and then like your life can transform.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Yeah. You know, I talk to a lot of people that struggle with<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">does that resonate with you or yeah i think there&#8217;s a lot of factors that can<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">contribute to depression and i think it&#8217;s um i have like a chart over here that&#8217;s<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">like 500 treatment options for depression because literally yeah yeah like i<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">personally believe there are that many like contributing factors if we lump them into<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">categories though um dr nealy puts them in 10 categories and this includes like<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">stuff going on biologically and and this can be something as simple as like anemia,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">low thyroid.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">and got very depressed out of the blue, like very depressed, suicidal, could not<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">function. They tried to antidepressants. They tried therapy, blah, blah, blah, blah,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">blah. Finally, they, like, they did a brain scan, and they saw there was something<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">going on in her brain. They decided to do exploratory surgery, and it turns out she<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">had a, this is a very rare case, okay? So, y &#8216;all, if you have depression, don&#8217;t<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">assume this is the problem, but it illustrates a point. They found that she had a<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">parasite in her brain. She had a worm in her brain.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Oh, my God. Yeah, yeah. And this worm was causing inflammation,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">which made her brain not function as well.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Right. So, like, we have &#8211; Horrifying. Yeah. So I personally do not buy the chemical<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">imbalance theory, though there are, like, chemical and wiring issues that can<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">contribute to depression. Like, that&#8217;s absolutely true. But the drug companies really<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">promoted this idea that depression is a single cause issue can be treated by a<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">single treatment. And I think that&#8217;s a false idea. Medications are great. They help<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">65 to 75 % of people, like SSRIs, for example, help 65 to 75 % of people have<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">better decreased their depression symptoms. So I&#8217;m not anti -medication. I&#8217;m just<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">saying if you want to treat depression, you can&#8217;t just look at it as a thinking<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">pattern situation because you&#8217;ve got to look at your body as well and what&#8217;s going<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">on. Other illnesses can contribute to depression. And then, like,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">if we look at that, then we also look at thinking patterns, right? Thinking patterns<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">are such an important part of depression. And here&#8217;s what I think is the unifying<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">theory here, is that when our nervous system<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">It goes or feels threatened. It goes through a tiered response. So if something<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">small attacks me, I fight it off. If something big attacks me, I run away.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">If something really big attacks me and I can&#8217;t run away, I freeze and then I<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">dissociate. I shut down. So this is the nervous system states. Fight, flight, freeze,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">shut down. And depression and shutdown, this is the dorsal vagal response in the<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">nervous system, look very similar. Like, if you overlap them, it&#8217;s the same thing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Your body feels heavy. You feel hopeless. You feel like isolating and withdrawing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Your thoughts are much more hopeless. You feel numb and detached. You can&#8217;t feel joy<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">anymore. This is, like, actually a nervous system protective response that&#8217;s like,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">oh, you know what? I&#8217;ve tried to be perfect for 100 years and it didn&#8217;t work so I<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">might as well give up. That can send to the message of like, yeah, quit, shut<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">down. This threat of like, if I&#8217;m not perfect, I&#8217;ll never be okay, that sends a<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">message to the nervous system to shut down. If your body is sick and you don&#8217;t<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">know and you just try showing up to work every single day and showing up in life<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">every single day and then you just get exhausted, your nervous system says, hey,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">this is overwhelming, time to protect yourself, curl up in your cave and wait until<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">you feel better, right? Like, you got to restore your resources. Or if something<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">you&#8217;ve tried over and over again isn&#8217;t working, like, let&#8217;s say systemic racism is<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">beating you down, or your thoughts are telling you. Like, your thoughts have become<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">distorted enough. Then when something good happens, you downplay it. Like, oh, what a<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">beautiful sunset. Oh, it&#8217;s probably pollution. Like, oh, my boss just gave me a<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">compliment, oh, he&#8217;s probably just trying to butter me up so I take on more<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">projects, right? Like that constant downplaying. It&#8217;s like a self -protective thing we<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">can fall into. And that constant negative thinking patterns can send that message<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">that I&#8217;m not safe and there&#8217;s nothing I can do about it. And then your nervous<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">system responds by physical changes, physiological changes that go on with depression.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">And like you said, trauma and anger can both do that. So if you&#8217;re like, you feel<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">angry, like everyone&#8217;s mistreating me. I&#8217;m just, and you feel like you can&#8217;t take<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">action to do anything about it. That&#8217;s where it gets stuck. And then your nervous<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">system&#8217;s like, I feel like stuck. I feel like I need to fight. I feel like I need<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">to say something, but I can&#8217;t say anything or I don&#8217;t know how to productively say<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">something. Then you&#8217;re nervous and like, well, this must be a big threat. I guess<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">I&#8217;ll shut down. It&#8217;s so interesting because a lot of, you know, depression, anxiety<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">is centered around needing to feel safe. And, you know, there are those of us who<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">grew up, you know, on, you know, neglected or had traumatic experiences.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">We get this really deep -rooted sense of I&#8217;m not safe. And so anytime we try to,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">you know, go outside of, like, we&#8217;re easily triggered and in my mind under every<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">trigger is a treasure like if you have the support and fortitude to sort of lean<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">in and you know you can allow that trigger to bring up the emotion that needs to<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">get processed to resolution like I think that can be a really important skill but<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">it&#8217;s so interesting that on both sides of anxiety and depression it&#8217;s sort of rooted<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">in this idea of I&#8217;m not safe and so we even even Like I was telling you before<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">we hit record, it&#8217;s like I go through a workaholic burnout cycle. And that seems<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">like the anxiety is like, oh, I need to do something. So I go into hyper<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">productivity mode, hyper responsibility mode. And I&#8217;m just like pegging it in the red<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">for like way too long. And then I crash and burn. Yeah. And then I need to<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">hibernate for a while. Like I did a self -care summer this last summer. I,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">it was interesting. I noticed that, and I know you had a story of burnout as well.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">I&#8217;m really interested to hear what sort of bled up to that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">But like I was working really hard and then things didn&#8217;t go the way I wanted to.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Then I burned out. So I was like, okay, I&#8217;m just going to stop doing anything<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">except for like the podcast and working out like I had this whole list. And I<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">turned my self -care summer into another thing that I. Like a big to -do list. It&#8217;s<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">a big to -do list. I&#8217;m going to do course of miracles, a morning page.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">practice this place of like surrender and what is God&#8217;s will for my life and see<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">if I can quiet my mind and my heart enough to get in touch with like I call you<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">know the inner compass like I want to be led through love and joy and so but it<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">took a while to calm everything down so that I could sort of get in touch with<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">what brings me joy what feels like a loving action. Do you know what I mean? It<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">like takes a minute from a whole nervous system to calm down. Even as you&#8217;re<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">talking, I&#8217;m like, oh yeah, I&#8217;m like, take a slow breath. I know I saw you lean<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">back. Yeah, blink a little slower. Because I love getting stuff done.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Like I love being busy and like working and making content and checking my<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">analytics.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Achieve, achieve achieve yeah right and when i&#8217;m truly like more centered and happy<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">i&#8217;m like pausing five minutes every hour to like slow down and check yeah practice<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">that mindfulness that you talk about um what how so what caught what preempted your<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">burnout where did that come from for you um i i was putting a lot of pressure on<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">myself with work. So I, um, from 2021 to 2023 or four,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">I was publishing one video every week on YouTube. And these videos take 15 to 20<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">hours, like at least 15 hours to write. Um, and then, you know, to produce,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">I have a team who helps with that, but a couple more hours there. And I only work<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">like 15 or 20 20 hours a week and I was pregnant. I had my fourth kid in 23.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Yeah. I was like pregnant, not sleeping. Then I was nursing, not sleeping, taking<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">care of kids, like managing a home and a business and just running too fast.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Yeah. So I, yeah, just too, like too stressed out too long,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">trying to do too many things by myself. What were kind of the symptoms of<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">everything just felt like work it just felt like something i had to do i had no<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">more joy in like what i was doing yeah um i felt tired felt really tired and just<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">not excited about things that normally get me excited just totally uninspired yeah<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">yeah i was just cranking out videos because i had to yeah and uh what was your<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">healing process like yeah um i read i read read like four or five books.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">And the one like they just came to my mind while you were talking earlier was the<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">ruthless elimination of hurry. What? And I believe that book is about Jesus.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">So for your audience, for those of you who aren&#8217;t like huge fan of religion, maybe<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">not the best book for you. But that book was about how Jesus didn&#8217;t run around<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">like a chicken with his head<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">I&#8217;ll love me some Jesus. I&#8217;m not, I&#8217;m not religious at all. But I think he was<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah. So he was just like, you know, how do we, how do we stop<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">being just so flustered all the time? I read Burnout by Emily Nagowski and then I<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">read slow productivity. And I read another book about like hurry. I read two books<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">about hurry. I can&#8217;t remember the other one. And So the Cal Newport book stood out<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">to me so much because his basic idea was, you know, hunter gatherers would have<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">these moments of high stress and high activity. And then they&#8217;d sit around a lot.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Like that was a much more realistic like work schedule. And our current work<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">schedule is basically like, you know, 50 weeks of the year, you should be busy and<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">doing the same thing and maybe two weeks of the year you can have a vacation and<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">so yeah and so like that was his first main point which was like oh what if we<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">work seasonally instead of like every week the same thing yeah so i decided that<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">i&#8217;m not working summers anymore like not really um i like hiked a lot last summer<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">yeah you&#8217;re been on hiking huh And then the other main point that he made that<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">stood out to me so much was, how do you determine when to stop adding things to<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">your plate? Like, what do you use as your metric? I would just be curious.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">What do you think? Like, at what point do you decide you have to start saying no<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">to things? Like, how do you make that decision that you&#8217;re not adding more to your<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">plate? Yeah, I really struggle with that. But Peter Drucker is this business guy who<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">said that if you have more than three priorities, you don&#8217;t have any. Ooh, I like<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">that. And so I, my cheat is that, um, I just have like three umbrellas.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">So I&#8217;m like coaching. I have podcasting. And then I have like, this is going to<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">sound silly, I have this, uh, soap making hobby. Yeah. So, because I love it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">I need to force myself to do some joyful activity and for me like soap making it<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">was like handcraft stuff as like my therapy. Great. And so anyway, but I&#8217;ve tried<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">to do like the essentialism and and say no to things. But I find that very<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">difficult because under those three categories is a ton of stuff. That&#8217;s what I was<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">just thinking. Like there&#8217;s like just with your coaching business, you could you<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">could scale that infinitely. Right. Like you could just take I got more and more<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">and more and more, more, right? Yeah, I cannot. Yeah, and like with social media,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">so like with my YouTube channel, there is always more more that I could be doing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">I could always take more sponsorships. I could always make more videos. I could<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">always make more shorts. I could always improve my optimization on my videos. I<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">could always make my videos more exciting, more entertaining, more story -driven, more<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">visually interesting, right? There&#8217;s like an infinite number of things to do. Cal<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Newport said most people when they choose how much to put on their plate they<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">choose to fill it up until they feel very anxious and stressed and not until they<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">feel very anxious and stressed do they decide that fine i&#8217;m not doing this anymore<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">and so that&#8217;s like that&#8217;s like their speed limit their speed limit i&#8217;m going to do<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">more and more and more until i burn burnout. Yeah. And then I&#8217;ll back off.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">And he&#8217;s like, what if we didn&#8217;t have that as our like goal?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">What would work look like if it didn&#8217;t, oh, that was the other book. Work doesn&#8217;t<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">have to be crazy. Or that I read like multiple summaries of that book. What would<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">it look like if we didn&#8217;t have to fill up every single single moment. So the<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">bookwork doesn&#8217;t have to be crazy. The CEO of that company, he was like, okay, we<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">do a six -week sprint to finish a project, and then we have two weeks where we<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">don&#8217;t really do much. And it would be easy as a CEO to be like, we should do<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">more. We should build more. And instead, if they finish the project early, they<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">don&#8217;t do more. And at the end of six weeks, they like play ultimate frisbee and<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">stuff<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">and they were trying to, they were getting so frustrated and finally he gives up.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">And then the next morning he walks out. And within two seconds, he was like, oh my<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">God, the bottom part was upside down. Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Yeah. And so you need your brain just like if this intense focus often prevents you<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">from taking a setback, seeing the big picture and discovering the solution. Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Yeah, I think so. And so what keeps us stuck in that, like, mode of just trying<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">to figure out that door, and it&#8217;s usually fear. So it&#8217;s usually, like, I&#8217;m driven<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">by, like, oh, what if I don&#8217;t make enough money? What if my YouTube channel fails?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">What if, like, so fear, like, when we let fear make our decisions, we fill<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">ourselves up until we burn out. Yeah. And the alternative is say, well, like, what&#8217;s<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">the amount of productivity I want to choose to be? And I think in our, like,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">capitalist hustle society, I&#8217;m like,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">to so many things at work. I&#8217;m going to say no to all these interview requests.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">I&#8217;m going to all these sponsor requests. I&#8217;m going to say no to all this money. I<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">say no to a million dollars a year. I guarantee you. Do you really? Oh yeah. I&#8217;m<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">sure. I&#8217;m sure I do. By choosing to only work 15 hours a week, I&#8217;m sure I say no<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">to a million dollars a year. Okay. Yeah. And I choose that because I&#8217;m choosing<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">that my family is my kids my young kids are most important to me yeah they&#8217;re only<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">little for so long yeah now i still struggle i still stink as a parent sometimes<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">and i still get stressed out like i have a hard time paying attention to them<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">because i like working so much i know yeah so like i&#8217;m no i&#8217;m no perfect parent<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">but like when i&#8217;m when i&#8217;m calm and collected i remember like oh it&#8217;s okay yeah<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">just money like it&#8217;s just it&#8217;s all good yeah it&#8217;s all good you know you can get<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">at it when they&#8217;re when they&#8217;re busy because i tell you what when they turn into<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">teenagers they&#8217;ll turn on you they&#8217;ll be interested when they&#8217;re little they want<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">your time and when they&#8217;re older they want your money so brace yourself okay okay<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">but i had promised we would talk a little bit about intrusive thoughts and<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">overthinking and how to process your emotions and i want to see if we can sort of<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">backload this episode with some practical strategies and i find that in truth.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">problems. It&#8217;s like, and I feel like there is a lot of this, like this,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">you know, self -help junkie, overconsuming to sort of drown out the thoughts.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">What are some practical solutions we might be able to try to incorporate to sort of<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">quiet those intrusive thoughts? Yeah. So, I mean,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">I think When it comes to overthinking, well, let&#8217;s use some terms here really<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">quickly. So in general, I&#8217;m going to use the term intrusive thoughts to refer to<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">more like unwanted thoughts, like OCD -type thoughts that are like, oh, okay. A lot<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">of times intrusive thoughts are more like, oh, this is something painful that I<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">don&#8217;t want to think about. And common examples of intrusive thoughts are like, what<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">if I hurt someone, pastor present? Like, what if, like,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">I&#8217;m trying to think of, like, good examples of intrusive thoughts. Like, what if I&#8217;m<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">a bad person,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">you know, like a lot of what ifs, like a lot of, like, kind of scary thoughts.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">What if I hurt my kids? What if I relapse? What if I&#8217;m gay? Like, what if I,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">yeah, like, people, like, have these common intrusive thoughts. And then overthinking,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">I would put in the category of, like, worrying and rumination. So, yeah. And then<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">just like and then and then there&#8217;s like the ADHD category of like needing my brain<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">to be busy all the time, which can also fit into anxiety. Like I just need to be<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">busy all the time. And so like there&#8217;s a couple things that can be going on here<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">with worrying and rumination. Like this can be an avoidant pattern with worry.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">I think the first thing to understand with worry, like if you&#8217;re constantly worrying<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">about the future, it&#8217;s important to understand that you are doing that on purpose.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">It doesn&#8217;t feel like it. Emma, how dare you call me out like that? Because if I<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">just said, hey, just stop worrying. What would you say? Yeah, no chance of that<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">happening. Right. Like that would be nice, but it doesn&#8217;t work. Yeah. So what the<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">brain consistently does is what the brain gets positive reinforcement. Oh dear.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">The brain, the brain likes to do what it does over and over again. So if it&#8217;s, if<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">you&#8217;re doing a pattern over and over again, the brain is getting something out of<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">it. With worry, here&#8217;s what&#8217;s happening.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">You have a thought that says, hmm, what if I do a bad job on my coaching session?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">You have a thought like, what if I run out of money this month? Mine&#8217;s like a,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Mine&#8217;s like, what if I waste my life and don&#8217;t.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">danger. Like, what would happen if you don&#8217;t fulfill your potential? Yeah, like<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">people actually, yeah, people actually die. Like, I&#8217;ve been sober for 31 years and,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">you know, Dia de los Morthos just passed and I had my little table and I have<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">like many friends on that table. Like I started my podcast because a friend of mine<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">died because she had some issues. Sure, sure. So it&#8217;s real. It&#8217;s so it&#8217;s not like<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">part of this is not like just imagined. It&#8217;s like people actually die. I have been.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">So you have this perception of fear, perception of danger, which I&#8217;m not saying it&#8217;s<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">not real, but I&#8217;m saying the response is then to worry about it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">So if the brain is like, hey, I had this thought, this perception of danger, and<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">then I took an action, the action is either to like get really clear on what&#8217;s<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">going to help the problem, or the action is going to be, like, do some other thing<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">that will avoid, like to flight, to avoid actually solving the problem. And then<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">when we do that avoidance, the brain is like,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">oh, few, because I avoided that and no one died, that means that was the right<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">thing to do. Let me give a better example. I&#8217;m going to start with a dog. Let&#8217;s<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">say you&#8217;re afraid of dogs. You see a dog on the street. You have a thought. What<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">if this dog bites me? There&#8217;s your perception of threat. Okay. If you run away from<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">that dog and you don&#8217;t get bitten, you don&#8217;t die,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">your brain is like, whew, I kept my human alive by running away. I&#8217;m going to make<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">my human do that again. I want to make sure my human stays alive in the presence<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">of dogs. So I&#8217;m going to make my human make sure that he runs away next time. The<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">way I&#8217;m going to do that is I&#8217;m going to increase their anxiety around dogs.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">So that&#8217;s the anxiety cycle. When we avoid something, it learns from the feedback of<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">us not dying, that that was the right thing to do. And then we avoid it again.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Now you might do this with drugs, right? Oh, like I feel really sad. I&#8217;m going to<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">smoke some weed. Now I don&#8217;t feel so sad. Cool. I can&#8217;t handle sadness. Sadness is<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">threatening. I&#8217;m going to smoke some weed every time. And that&#8217;s going to make your<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">brain be like, cool. I&#8217;m going to make my human want more weed next time in<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">response to emotions that feel threatening right yeah so worrying is part of the<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">anxiety cycle when you have a perception of threat your brain&#8217;s like what should i<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">do to be safe from this perception of threat i&#8217;m going to worry for most of the<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">day and when i worry and no one dies today then your brain is like cool that<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">worked i&#8217;m going to make my human worry again yeah again. And then no one dies and<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">your brain&#8217;s like, great. Worrying seems to be a very effective solution. Now,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">sometimes clearly this doesn&#8217;t work. Like, worrying is not actually, worrying is a<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">form of magical thinking. Right?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Like, it&#8217;s not actually the worrying that solves things. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">this really applies to like those of us that are like self -help junkies. So, You<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">know, you learn that, oh, if you sort of explore your emotions and you learn<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">something that you can feel better and change your life, but like I see people in<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">12 -step or just people on sort of the recovery journey that the overconsumption of<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">mental health information, some of it, like yours is actually really practical, but<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">it&#8217;s taking action. it&#8217;s the taking action piece that&#8217;s missing like it&#8217;s it&#8217;s<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">sometimes there is um like the avoidance for me is like oh I learned something new<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">and like time passes I don&#8217;t have to really feel my feelings I&#8217;m not really taking<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">action I&#8217;m just consuming and so I think it&#8217;s really important for us to like start<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">taking action but I it&#8217;s easy to get caught in the consuming loop because that<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">feels like you&#8217;re doing something when you have like this magical insight. That&#8217;s<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">right. Yeah, it feels like you&#8217;re doing something, right? Like, I&#8217;m going to explore<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">and explore and explore. Like, what happened in my childhood and ask that question a<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">hundred times? Like, why am I the way I am? Yeah, people are lost in that. Yeah,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">and it feels really good, honestly, to be told like, oh, it was this or this that<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">made you this way.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">But you&#8217;re right. Like, in the end, if we look at, if we look at, for example,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">your situation, like, if I don&#8217;t, if I don&#8217;t make great recovery content,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">then someone else might, might die. That&#8217;s a tricky one, right?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">So what, what action do we do to create like a same workspace for you?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Yeah. Yeah. So I, a lot of, a lot of mine is around detachment. Like, I have like<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">this hyper responsibility tendency, hyper responsible.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Yeah. And like I have a desire to like, you know, solve problems for other people.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">But I think there is a balance there. There is like some surrender in there and<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">acknowledging that I am actually not responsible for fixing or saving anybody.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Yes. Yeah. And I switch from this, I call it like a dirty,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">like fear is like a dirty fuel source. And that&#8217;s what I really learned over my<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">self -care summer is I was being propelled by a dirty fuel source of like trying to<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">prove that I&#8217;m good enough and trying to rescue and save and fix and all that<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">stuff. And I&#8217;ve decided to switch it to like a fuel source that&#8217;s based off of<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">trust and love, like I trust sort of in the universe, God, higher power,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">whatever people want to call it, that, you know, I&#8217;m just responsible for just like<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">showing up and, and honestly sharing what&#8217;s going on on my heart. And the rest is<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">not, it&#8217;s not on me. It&#8217;s not like I, it&#8217;s not my, I don&#8217;t take credit and it&#8217;s<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">not my fault. Yeah. Like, depth, the whole fuel source from fear to what&#8217;s,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">what does love want to express through me today? So that feels like a super<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">paradigm ship. I love that. And those are two skills that are so valuable. The<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">first one I would call is locus of control. Like you identify, except what you<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">can&#8217;t change, change what you can. I&#8217;m sure your audience is familiar with that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Right. And I think you write this on a piece of paper. Like you draw the lines<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">and right. Here&#8217;s everything I cannot control. Here&#8217;s what&#8217;s in my control. And<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">here&#8217;s what I choose.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">yeah because when you&#8217;re in the middle of it even if you know all this stuff like<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">we&#8217;re we&#8217;re still you know the human animals like we need outside support and like<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">it&#8217;s so nice to have friends or a therapist or a coach or somebody who you can<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">sort of check in with occasionally be like hey this is this is what&#8217;s going on and<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">people go oh when was the last time you practice self -for -giveness or you seem<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">like you might be a little out of balance here or there. Yeah. Yeah, no, I think<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">that&#8217;s true. And our nervous system, like, we can&#8217;t just thrive in a self -help<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">environment, you know. We can&#8217;t just, like, be so individualistic and be okay.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">So I love that you bring that up. Yeah, I feel like hyper -independence is kind of<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">a sign of trauma that there&#8217;s a lot of people sort of exploring their recovery<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">space, like getting sober who really want to do it on their own. Yeah. And I feel<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">like that&#8217;s driven out of fear that you can&#8217;t trust others or an inability to be<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">vulnerable. It&#8217;s really interesting this whole, like, I want to do it on my own.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Like, I feel like there is some pride in that. Like, people think, oh, if I can<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">do it on my own, then I can be out of myself. But the truth of the matter is it<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">takes a tremendous amount of courage to be willing to be open and vulnerable with a<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">therapist or a coach to process your feelings to resolution. Totally.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Which kind of sort of leads me to how to process your emotions. I know we only<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">have a few minutes, but I want to be sure that, and I know you have lots of<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">videos on your YouTube channel, so I will direct everybody there. But do you have<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">sort of like an overall general process on how to process your emotions?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think, I think we could do this even like with the<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">worrying example. Okay. But like there are practical skills for each of these things.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">And when it comes to overthinking, like what happens is a lot of times our thoughts<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">and our feelings, they&#8217;re just kind of vague to us. Like we don&#8217;t even notice we&#8217;re<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">thinking these thoughts. Like we don&#8217;t even notice that we&#8217;re worrying all the time.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">going on. And I think it helps to call it like a story or something like that or<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">to think of your brain as a word machine. So you could you could imagine your<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">brain like a machine that like cranks out paper with words on it and you&#8217;d be<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">like, oh, there&#8217;s that worrying again. There&#8217;s that worrying again. And this helps<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">with overthinking as well. Like name that thought. There&#8217;s that story that I&#8217;m a<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">victim again, showing up again. There&#8217;s that story that the reason I feel this way<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">is because of my parents. Now, I&#8217;m not going to deny that, like, parents impact us.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">But when we stick to that story as justification, it doesn&#8217;t. It&#8217;s not as helpful,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">usually. Right, right. So the first, the first step is to notice what we&#8217;re feeling<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">and notice what we&#8217;re thinking. Notice our thoughts, notice our feelings. And I think<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">when people are new at this, they think they just, if they just try harder, they&#8217;ll<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">do it. And that never, like, let&#8217;s not do that anymore, guys. Yeah, trying harder.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Yeah, figure it out. Try harder. That&#8217;s not a thing. Yeah, we&#8217;ve got to build<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">systems around this. So I would say, use a, use an app like Lotus Bud or<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Mindfulness Bell and set a prompt to go off once an hour so that you check in<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">with your thoughts or feelings once an hour. What am I thinking right now? So the<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">chime goes off and you&#8217;re like, oh, I was worrying and I didn&#8217;t notice it. Oh, my<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">gosh. I&#8217;m feeling anxious and I didn&#8217;t notice it and my shoulders are up to my<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">ears right like I&#8217;m all tense right now so you check in with your thoughts your<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">feelings in your body right your thoughts your emotions in your body&#8217;s like oh my<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">shoulders are dense my breathing is tight I&#8217;m thinking about how if I don&#8217;t make<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">great content you know bad things will happen those are my thoughts that&#8217;s my story<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">and my feelings are like I feel a little anxious or a little stressed right now<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Yeah, that&#8217;s a really good. So that&#8217;s the first, that&#8217;s the first step is like, can<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">we just notice this? Notice, okay. And then the second step is willingness.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">We have a default reaction to feelings. Like, we all do.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">And the reason we have a default reaction is we probably learned this when we were<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">very young. And so we learned when we&#8217;re sad, we need to do something about this<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">sadness, whether it&#8217;s go get a hug or go eat a cupcake. Like we learned some kind<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">of reaction to make that sadness go away. And if we were surrounded by a lot of<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">safety, we might have learned that like, it&#8217;s okay to cry. It&#8217;s going to be all<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">right. This will work out. I&#8217;m just going to let this feeling be here. But many of<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">us through our painful experiences, we didn&#8217;t know what to do with emotions. So we<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">developed some kind of reactive way to stuff, suppress, or avoid our feelings.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">So step two is like, let&#8217;s do the opposite of that. And that&#8217;s called willingness<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">and acceptance and commitment therapy. I&#8217;ve probably got like 20 videos about it on<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">my channel. Oh, yeah. I was going to ask you about that. That is the main modality<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">of that you use is the act. Uh -huh. Yeah, act is acceptance and treatment therapy.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">It&#8217;s got like six main, six main like strategies in it. And the second one is<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">willingness. I find willingness to be so interesting because it&#8217;s so hard to<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">manufacture. Like it&#8217;s willingness almost seems to come after some sort of pain.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Right. So willingness seems to be hard to manufacture. The other form form, because<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">willingness is a willingness to do something, right? And you were talking about like<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">do the office. Is that true? So the way, when I say willingness, other words for<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">the, the way I&#8217;m talking about it is more like acceptance is what the more common<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">term is. But when people think of acceptance, they usually think, oh, I just have<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">to accept that my boss is a jerk. Right. Like, that&#8217;s what they think of with<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">acceptance. And what I mean is actually a bot, a switch inside of you that says,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">I&#8217;m going to let myself feel what I&#8217;m feeling right now. That&#8217;s what willingness is.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">So you have a choice. It&#8217;s either on or off. You can either try to make your<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">feelings go away or you can say here in this moment, I feel sad. And I&#8217;ll give us<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">a quick example. This one time when I was like newer in my business, someone sent<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">me a letter that was like a cease and desist letter. And it&#8217;s like this legal<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">letter. And like, we&#8217;re coming after you if you don&#8217;t stop this right now. And I<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">was like, and I didn&#8217;t like have a lawyer at that time. I didn&#8217;t know what to do,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">right? I&#8217;d no idea. I was like panicking a little bit. And I went on a walk and<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">I got to get myself to calm down. I can&#8217;t feel anxious about this. And I was like<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">trying to like breathe. And I was trying to like think through it. And I was<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">trying to do this. And I was trying to do that. And I just like was like, ah,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">like feeling more anxious. And when I turned on the willingness switch, I was like,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">it&#8217;s okay. What does anxiety feel like right now? Oh, I&#8217;m noticing that my chest<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">feels really tight. My stomach feels upside. Okay, I can let those sensations be<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">here right now. I don&#8217;t need to struggle against my feelings right now.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">I can allow them in this moment to be here. That&#8217;s not the same as saying, I&#8217;m<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">going to feel sad forever. That&#8217;s not willingness. I&#8217;m going to feel anxious forever.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">That&#8217;s not willingness. It&#8217;s just saying, here in this moment, I am where I am.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">feelings. Yeah. Because prior to that, all action is revolved around avoidance.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Yeah, it&#8217;s all fear. Yeah, it&#8217;s got to make this go away. Yeah. I&#8217;m running away<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">from something. I&#8217;m running away from my feelings. And if we have, if we have the<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">ability to sit with our feelings, we don&#8217;t have to run away from them anymore. And<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">when you practice this, this is like difficult because I&#8217;m telling about a theory,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">like instead of just having you practicing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Like,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">check out my videos i guess we don&#8217;t have a lot of time right now but there&#8217;s<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">like this sounds tricky and mental don&#8217;t think about it but watch one of the videos<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">that has an exercise and then just do the exercise and then experience that&#8217;s like<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">just experience it we can experience it right now go ahead and um i&#8217;ll just like<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">should<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">we do five minutes yeah if you want to oh man um i know your friend&#8217;s gonna be<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">like y &#8216;all there she is late for her hiking it. Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">person. That&#8217;s like an inaccurate thoughts. We question our thoughts and we ask,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">instead of fighting our thoughts, we just say, is this, is this thought helping me<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">right now? Is this thought helping me right now? And then we clarify our values.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">What I most care about? And then the last step is you choose one action now that<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">lines up with your values. What&#8217;s most important to you? So if you look at yourself<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">and your values. You&#8217;re like, I really care about, like, helping people within my,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">my realm of influence. And I&#8217;ve chosen to dedicate 10 hours a week to this. And<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">they say, within those 10 hours, I&#8217;m going to help people in this way. And you<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">choose that as an action to line up with those values. Yeah. I like breaking that<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">down into like little mini baby steps, because that feels doable.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">And and then and then I can build momentum but that helps me gives out of that<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">breeze mode. Yeah. Yeah, I probably don&#8217;t have time to do a willingness exercise.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">I probably should go meet my friend. But I will. Do that because you know what I&#8217;m<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">going to do is I feel like it would be helpful to do listen exercise.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">So I&#8217;ll link in the show notes at ODATChat .com. I&#8217;ll put a link to the videos<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">that have extra.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">few seconds and just allow that discomfort to be there without trying to make it go<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">away. Okay.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Let me just say one more thing. Okay, one of the most effective ways, I just, I<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">have so many things I love to share. Going back to this worry thing, going back to<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">overthinking, there&#8217;s different ways to manage overthinking, but going back to worrying<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">and overthinking, there&#8217;s actually a super effective way to manage worry and telling<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">your brain to not worry doesn&#8217;t work. It just doesn&#8217;t work because worrying is kind<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">of a reflexive thing we&#8217;re doing. So instead, we have to tell our brain when to<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">worry. Okay. So this skill is really,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">really effective at decreasing general anxiety by like 80%. And it&#8217;s called scheduled<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">worry. So you say every day at a certain time, usually afternoon is best. Not right<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">before bed, not first thing in the morning. Every day, 10 or 15 minutes, I&#8217;m going<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">to worry on purpose. I&#8217;m going to worry on purpose for 10 or 15 minutes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">You do it on paper. Write down your worries on paper.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">And then throughout that month during the day, you have to check in with yourself<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">and catch yourself worrying during the day and say, hey, brain, thanks for bringing<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">up that worry thought. I&#8217;m going to address this at 5 p .m. I&#8217;m going to address<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">this at 5 p .m. And you train your brain a puppy like you can&#8217;t tell a puppy<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">don&#8217;t pee you tell a puppy pee on the grass right yeah so same with your brain<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">you can&#8217;t tell your brain don&#8217;t worry you tell your brain worry at 5 p .m and so<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">then if you if you constrain your worry to 15 minutes every day your general<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">anxiety will go down like 80 so I have a video on that I have a video on that<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">too it&#8217;s called scheduled worry scheduled worry I will totally watch that and when I<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">do the intro for this episode. I will report back on how it went. Okay. I hope<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">it&#8217;s amazing for you. I&#8217;m sure it will be. So it&#8217;s so fun talking with you. I&#8217;m<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">sorry, we have to, we have to end. It&#8217;d be fun to talk another hour. I know. I<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">know. Well, maybe if you have time, come back. But I will leave links to therapy<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">in a nutshell, the specific videos that we talked about. I will do a summary and<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">post that on Stubstack, so it&#8217;ll have all the references and all that. So thank<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">you, Emma, thank you so much. It was such a pleasure to meet you. Thanks for your<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">help today. Yeah, thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. Oh, look, who&#8217;s just<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">coming home from school. Hi, buddy. Did you make a picture? No,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">it&#8217;s a turkey. It&#8217;s a turkey. This is the race and I have to go. We&#8217;re going to<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Mary&#8217;s. So thanks. We&#8217;ll have fun on your walk. Thank you so much. Okay, have a<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">good day. All right, you too. Bye.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>One of the biggest takeaways from this conversation with Emma is that anxiety, depression, and burnout aren\u2019t character flaws\u2014they\u2019re nervous system responses to feeling<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":5930,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"nf_dc_page":"","_exactmetrics_skip_tracking":false,"_exactmetrics_sitenote_active":false,"_exactmetrics_sitenote_note":"","_exactmetrics_sitenote_category":0,"_monsterinsights_skip_tracking":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_active":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_note":"","_monsterinsights_sitenote_category":0,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":true,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2},"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false},"categories":[84,119,23],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-5925","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-addiction","category-anxiety","category-depression"],"aioseo_notices":[],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/odaatchat.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Emma-McAdam-Branding07-1-e1766533853794.png?fit=768%2C595&ssl=1","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/p9npAr-1xz","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/odaatchat.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/5925","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/odaatchat.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/odaatchat.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/odaatchat.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/odaatchat.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=5925"}],"version-history":[{"count":4,"href":"https:\/\/odaatchat.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/5925\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":5948,"href":"https:\/\/odaatchat.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/5925\/revisions\/5948"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/odaatchat.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/5930"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/odaatchat.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=5925"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/odaatchat.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=5925"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/odaatchat.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=5925"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}