{"id":5787,"date":"2025-11-05T16:52:11","date_gmt":"2025-11-06T00:52:11","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/odaatchat.com\/?p=5787"},"modified":"2025-11-06T06:05:44","modified_gmt":"2025-11-06T14:05:44","slug":"sean-dadashi-on-not-belonging-suicidal-depression-and-tools-for-healing","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/odaatchat.com\/index.php\/2025\/11\/05\/sean-dadashi-on-not-belonging-suicidal-depression-and-tools-for-healing\/","title":{"rendered":"Sean Dadashi On Not Belonging, Suicidal Depression, And Tools For Healing"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Today I am speaking with Sean Dadashi, the co-founder of Rosebud, an interactive AI journaling app. He was so brave in sharing his story of struggling with feeling of not belonging when he was young, and how he struggled with the terrifying darkness of suicidal depression. What was especially inspiring to me was how in a moment of willingness, he reached out for answers.&nbsp; What he found were ideas around spirituality that allowed him to follow a gentle path that helped him connect with a higher power. It\u2019s such a beautiful story of hope that I know you\u2019ll enjoy.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Before we jump in, I want to share the answers I received to last week\u2019s question: Can you still be friends with your drinking buddies after you get sober?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The responses were really interesting! Some people like Nancy just replied with a firm \u201cNo\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Steve wrote me to say \u201cYes, the real friends that were much more than drinking buddies\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Lucy who is in early recovery just said it was too early to tell yet.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In my experience, the purpose of friendships is that you grow together. If the only thing in common you have with your drinking buddies is drinking and talking smack, then those aren\u2019t friendships worth having anyway. The friends who really appreciate you will be open to spending time with you doing other things.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">This week\u2019s question is around how you deal with anger.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I have to be honest. When I first got sober and I\u2019d get into an argument, I would yell, break things or cut people out of my life. I didn\u2019t have great communication skills to say the least. But in 12 step, I was taught how to deconstruct my thinking, look for what was being triggered in me, and how to accept responsibility for my part, and ultimately let go of what other people said or didn\u2019t say or do.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So what about you? How do you process anger as a sober person? You can respond to my post on instagram @arlinaallen&nbsp; or leave a comment on this episode at <a href=\"https:\/\/odaatchat.com\">odaatchat.com<\/a>. Next week I\u2019ll share some of the responses.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So without further delay, please enjoy this episode with Sean.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"Embed Player\" src=\"https:\/\/play.libsyn.com\/embed\/episode\/id\/38932375\/height\/128\/theme\/modern\/size\/standard\/thumbnail\/yes\/custom-color\/87A93A\/time-start\/00:00:00\/playlist-height\/200\/direction\/backward\/download\/yes\/font-color\/FFFFFF\" height=\"128\" width=\"100%\" scrolling=\"no\" allowfullscreen=\"\" webkitallowfullscreen=\"true\" mozallowfullscreen=\"true\" oallowfullscreen=\"true\" msallowfullscreen=\"true\" style=\"border: none;\"><\/iframe>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Download the Rosebud App Here:\u00a0https:\/\/www.rosebud.app\/<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>\ud83d\udc4a\ud83c\udffcNeed help applying this information to your own life?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Here are 3 ways to get started:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>\ud83c\udf81Free Guide: 30 Tips for Your First 30 Days &#8211; With a printable PDF checklist<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Grab your copy here: <a href=\"https:\/\/www.soberlifeschool.com\">https:\/\/www.soberlifeschool.com<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>\u260e\ufe0fPrivate Coaching: Make Sobriety Stick<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.makesobrietystick.com\">https:\/\/www.makesobrietystick.com<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Subscribe So You Don\u2019t Miss New Episodes!<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><em>Listen to the episode on<\/em><\/strong><a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/the-one-day-at-a-time-recovery-podcast\/id1212504521\"><strong><em> Apple Podcasts<\/em><\/strong><\/a><strong><em>, <\/em><\/strong><a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/4I23r7DBTpT8XwUUwHRNpB\"><strong><em>Spotify<\/em><\/strong><\/a><strong><em>, or Amazon Music, or you can stream it from my website <\/em><\/strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.odaatchat.com\"><strong><em>HERE<\/em><\/strong><\/a><strong><em>.<\/em> <em>Y<a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@theonedayatatimepodcast?sub_confirmation=1\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" title=\"\">ou can also watch the interview on YouTube.<\/a><\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full is-resized\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"295\" height=\"121\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/odaatchat.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/11\/image-1.png?fit=295%2C121&amp;ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-5789\" style=\"width:224px;height:auto\"\/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/the-one-day-at-a-time-recovery-podcast\/id1212504521\"><strong><\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full is-resized\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"217\" height=\"76\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/odaatchat.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/11\/image.png?fit=217%2C76&amp;ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-5788\" style=\"width:229px;height:auto\"\/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large is-resized\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1374\" height=\"334\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/odaatchat.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/11\/image-3.png?fit=640%2C156&amp;ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-5791\" style=\"width:237px;height:auto\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/odaatchat.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/11\/image-3.png?w=1374&amp;ssl=1 1374w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/odaatchat.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/11\/image-3.png?resize=300%2C73&amp;ssl=1 300w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/odaatchat.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/11\/image-3.png?resize=1024%2C249&amp;ssl=1 1024w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/odaatchat.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/11\/image-3.png?resize=768%2C187&amp;ssl=1 768w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/odaatchat.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/11\/image-3.png?w=1280&amp;ssl=1 1280w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 640px) 100vw, 640px\" \/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/music.amazon.com\/podcasts\/a8eb438c-5af1-493b-99c1-f218e5553aff\/the-one-day-at-a-time-recovery-podcast\"><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full is-resized\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@theonedayatatimepodcast?sub_confirmation=1\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"179\" height=\"60\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/odaatchat.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/11\/image-2.png?fit=179%2C60&amp;ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-5790\" style=\"width:241px;height:auto\"\/><\/a><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@theonedayatatimepodcast\"><strong><\/strong><\/a><strong>&nbsp;<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Apple: <\/strong><a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/the-one-day-at-a-time-recovery-podcast\/id1212504521\"><strong>https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/the-one-day-at-a-time-recovery-podcast\/id1212504521<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Spotify: <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/4I23r7DBTpT8XwUUwHRNpB\">https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/4I23r7DBTpT8XwUUwHRNpB<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Amazon Music: <a href=\"https:\/\/music.amazon.com\/podcasts\/a8eb438c-5af1-493b-99c1-f218e5553aff\/the-one-day-at-a-time-recovery-podcast\">https:\/\/music.amazon.com\/podcasts\/a8eb438c-5af1-493b-99c1-f218e5553aff\/the-one-day-at-a-time-recovery-podcast<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Full Transcript:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Well, Sean, thank you so much for joining me today. It&#8217;s great to be here. Yeah,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">you know, we&#8217;re going to be talking about Rosebud, which is an A, correct me if<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I&#8217;m wrong, if I misspeak about this, but it&#8217;s an AI -assisted journaling tool.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Is that a fair description? Yeah, we call it an interactive journal that makes<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">journaling easier and more effective. Yeah,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">it really has. So I&#8217;ve been testing it out. And I have found that it&#8217;s asking me<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">like the deeper questions. There&#8217;s actually a little button that says go deeper. So<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I&#8217;m like, yes, yes, yes, let&#8217;s go deeper. It&#8217;s been really interesting because there<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">have been times when, especially if I&#8217;m going through something if I feel triggered,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">if I&#8217;m having just like a hard day or whatever, sometimes, you know, journaling is<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">good. I&#8217;ve been practicing journaling for a long time, but sometimes I don&#8217;t have,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">like I need some prompts. And so, and I&#8217;ve seen that they&#8217;re journals that offer<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">prompts, but it&#8217;s such a different, I&#8217;ve been using it. So I&#8217;ve, it&#8217;s been such a<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">different experience to just say hey here&#8217;s what&#8217;s going on and then it comes back<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">with insightful questions that for whatever reason like i just can&#8217;t access in my<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">own mind so it is like a yeah it is interactive and it&#8217;s i&#8217;ve already found it to<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">be really really helpful what prompted you to create this app<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">yeah i mean the the inspiration came from My own personal struggles with depression<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">and just going through, you know, trying to understand what the hell was happening<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">in my life that was leading me to feel so terrible, right? And have this kind of<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">had a internal critic that was just very, very loud. And I think a lot of people<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">might be you know read feel like feel that and have that and so you know as i<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">was going through this process of you know just healing i guess you could call it<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">i was doing therapy i was i was very fortunate to start doing men&#8217;s groups which<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">we can talk about and has been a huge part of my my path and um You know,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I was journaling as well. And the, even with all the things that I was doing,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">there were these moments right at 10 p .m. on a Tuesday where I don&#8217;t necessarily<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">have a therapist to talk to and I&#8217;m journaling and I&#8217;m spiraling in my thoughts.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And I just wish that there was something there that could help course correct,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">help me see what I was missing and reframe it, ask me the right question to push<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">me and nudge me in the right direction. And that feeling was what made me wonder,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">oh, could AI actually help me become more self -aware? And could we build a tool<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">that uses AI in a way that helps people grow? And that&#8217;s where the inspiration for<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Rosewood comes from. I love it. It&#8217;s so interesting how, you know, these tools<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">typically come out of a challenging experience. You know, a lot of the, you know,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">12 step was actually, you know, born from people who had like a desperate need to<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">get better. And so, yeah, it&#8217;s sort of like one of those things where it&#8217;s like<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">the best, the worst thing that ever happened to you can, you know, be transformed<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">into the best thing that ever happened to you. I always like to start off these<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">conversations with a little bit of context about childhood,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">like how you grew up, because I really feel like the experiences that we have in<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">childhood sort of shape who we are and how we behave as adults. And I know you<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">have an interesting background growing up with parents that are immigrants. But tell<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">me a little bit about what your childhood was like. Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So you&#8217;re right. I grew up in Southern California in Orange County in a community<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">that, you know, didn&#8217;t have that as many immigrants in it. And my parents are<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">immigrants. And I went to a Christian school while my parents were not Christian.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And I was baptized and confirmed Christian and my goodness yeah your parents were<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">from Iran is that true yeah my parents were from Iran they they came right during<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">the revolution that happened there that you know a lot of Iranians left and yeah so<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">they weren&#8217;t they weren&#8217;t Christian but I remember asking my mom you know why did<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">you guys send me to Christian school and she said, we just wanted you to have a<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">relationship with God. And so I can, you know, understand that now later on.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But for, for a kid, it was very confusing. I mean, I think immigrant children in<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">general can, our children of immigrants can resonate with this feeling like,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">you know, where do I belong, right? You have one culture in your community and one<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">culture at home, which can create this kind of dissonance of like who am i people<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">you know people who move around a lot or call it third culture you&#8217;re like a third<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">culture kid um so i think that was one aspect of it and another aspect of it that<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">i actually think you know was what led to the mental health challenges that i had<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">um is that my family didn&#8217;t have a practice or culture of emotional like process<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">masking right and so we we had a you know dynamic growing up where it was just<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">like we would not talk about what was happening beneath the surface really right we<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">were just like try to keep things normal try to smile and what I think happens<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">there is that there&#8217;s this dissonance that got got created between what I was<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">projecting and living in my external life and what was happening internally. And that<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">dissonance once it got strong enough through all the challenges and things that I<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">had no way to process and deal with and speak to anybody about, eventually that led<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">to, you know, the gears grinding to a halt and depression. It feels like an<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">impossible situation. You&#8217;re just stuck in this place and and you don&#8217;t know what to<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">do because you&#8217;re just pinned between this intern the<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">even in my house, some, you know, dissonance there, some, you know, it was,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">it was very confusing. And I feel like we all have like this need to belong. And<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I can&#8217;t imagine that it&#8217;s like you&#8217;re living this double life. And we all just want<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">to, you know, fit in and belong. But so many of us grow up at this feeling of<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">like othered. Like, I&#8217;m not like everybody else and I better not tell them who I<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">really am or I&#8217;ll be rejected. I feel like it&#8217;s sort of the undercurrent. And so<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">we do have to, you know, like you said, like your mom, her survival skill is the<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">masking, right? Who doesn&#8217;t do that, right? But we feel like we&#8217;re the only ones<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">who do it. And it must, it is so confusing. I had a mom that was like always<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">putting on the happy face. So she could not tolerate any of my discomfort,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">right? She couldn&#8217;t tolerate any of my pain. It was always like the bypassing. It<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">was like, oh, yeah, well, at least this or yeah, but this. And so constant dismiss.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Did you experience that too, the constant dismissing of your pain? Yeah,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I think it comes out of, right,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">if somebody doesn&#8217;t want to deal with, if somebody can&#8217;t deal with their own pain.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">They&#8217;re going to do that. And then that teaches me or us as children that,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">oh, this isn&#8217;t something that&#8217;s okay to feel. This isn&#8217;t something that&#8217;s okay to<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">express. I have to just bury this, not talk about it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And it wasn&#8217;t even a shame. It was just like, you know, just redirect,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">right? If I did talk about it, it just, you know, we just don&#8217;t talk about it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Right. Everything&#8217;s okay. Don&#8217;t, you know, just don&#8217;t bring it up.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It was good in a way because the tension that existed at home stopped existing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And so that was great. But then, you know, there was the aftermath of that and,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">you know, splitting homes. And that was a really formative period of, right, going<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">from middle school or junior high to high school. And,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">you know, speaking of belonging and going into a new environment and you know having<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">switching homes and all this sort of stuff um but yeah i think all of that<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">together right just just leads to a let me to a place of feeling hopeless and um<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">and just severely depressed and i&#8217;ve i had experienced i&#8217;ve experienced depression<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">majorly three times in my life. That was the first time when I was around. Around<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">the divorce, around your 13? It was around 14, 15 years old. So the divorce happens<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">and there&#8217;s initial sense of relief. And then the other part kicks in and it&#8217;s the<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">morning of the family breaking up. It&#8217;s the, you know, like that is a 14,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">15. It&#8217;s kind of like when your consciousness kind of comes online, your identity,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">your ego, your personality kind of comes online. And it&#8217;s like, who am I? And<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">things aren&#8217;t going well. Like, it makes sense. And I, you know, like I went to<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">high school and I was like, oh, you know, I&#8217;ll be popular. I&#8217;ll play sports. I&#8217;ll,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">you know, do all the do the things, right? And I did that my first year and I<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">still had that void inside of me. It didn&#8217;t change anything, right? I still felt<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">that despair on some deep level. Like, I didn&#8217;t know who I was. I had all this<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">stuff that was pent up. And I think after that,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I was like, what&#8217;s the purpose of all this? Right. I did all this stuff. I&#8217;m<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">trying to do everything right. And I still feel this void. I still feel like shit<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">inside. Yeah. That is a really painful place to be yeah did you have suicidal<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">ideation like when you talk about hopelessness like how dark did it get for you<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">yeah it got very very dark um i i did have suicidal ideation um i have had that<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">you know since then too um during your depressive episodes episodes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">During, yeah, during my depressive episodes. And, yeah, that first time,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">yeah, I was, you know, I was a child of the internet. I spent a lot of time<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">online. And I think the, the powerful thing about tools like the internet is that<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">they can be used in both very constructive and constructive ways. I agree.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And when I was in that pit of despair, I was just on my computer. I searched in<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Google at the time. You know, how do I commit suicide? And I remember reading the<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">results, just absolutely feeling so overwhelmed, going to the bathroom,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I remember looking over at the bathtub, because that was one of the things that I<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">read in the results, looking in the mirror, looking in my eyes. And I just couldn&#8217;t<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">believe that I had even done that, you know, that I had actually searched it,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">right? It&#8217;s one thing to feel it on the inside, right, and think it. It&#8217;s another<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">thing to actually like take an action in the physical world. Yeah. To search for<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">it, right? And actually picture what that, what<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Like, I was in a sad place, and I was eventually, like, the next day went back to<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">the computer. I was searching for just different things. And I was on a forum,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">and I found some people talking about some books.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And they were talking about how these books really helped them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And they were books like Eastern, you know,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">spirituality and philosophy and, and so I went to the bookstore and I tried to see<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">if the bookstore had any of those books and they had some of them and I picked<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">out some of those books and that was when I was introduced for the first time of<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">the concept of meditation was through one of those books. They actually outlined<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">how&#8230; Do you remember which books really spoke to you? Yeah, there was one author<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">in particular. His name&#8217;s Jidhu Krishna Morti. He actually has a center in Ohio, in<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">California. And he had a book called Inward Revolution. That was one of the first<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">books that I read. And it was in one of his books that I was introduced to<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">meditation.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">thing that was everywhere it&#8217;s like in everything and i felt that on a very deep<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">level i remember having kind of like an epiphany sort of realization feeling and you<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">know that led me to have be able to shift my experience but i would say that i<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">was spiritual bypassing now looking back on it so i i didn&#8217;t see i couldn&#8217;t see<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">that at the time<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Yeah. Well, listen, to be fair, I mean, it sounded like you really needed some<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">relief. Yeah. How old were you at this time? Were you like 16? I was 16,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">yeah. Oh, okay. Okay. So at 16 years old, it&#8217;s like you&#8217;ve been carrying this<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">burden for quite some time. You get a new perspective, a new concept of a higher<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">power that feels really have a spiritual experience. And What a relief that myself<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">felt like. Huge, huge. And I&#8217;m like so grateful for it. And I think that was the<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">necessary first step to write what came later on in my life.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Right, right. So I want to know what came on later in life because it sounds like<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">you&#8217;ve struggled with this a few times. And so when you come out of this and you<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">started practicing meditation, what kind of meditation? Because I hear people doing<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">walking meditations, silent, like facing the wall kind of meditations,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">music. I mean, there&#8217;s a bazillion ways to do. What was your progression with that?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Yeah. So the first one that I read in that book was just sitting still,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">eyes closed, single point of attention. It could be on anything, you know, there<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">could be like a candle in front of&#8230; Yeah, or just any,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">anything, like there, you know, I remember the first time there was just like a, I<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">had a shutter, like a window sill, and I just like paid attention to a line on<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">that. And that was it. Okay. Literally anything. literally anything and just keeping<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">the attention on that, you know, that can progress. Like, there are some that, you<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">know, bring the attention to the tip of the nose and the air coming in and out of<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">the, you know, one of the nostrils or both of the nostrils. One that I eventually,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">you know, really liked and would do more is just noticing thoughts.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So bringing, I think of it as like the mind is like a fountain of thoughts, right?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And I&#8217;m trying to get to, I&#8217;m trying to get to the spout, right?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Oh, okay. Yeah, so I think of like there&#8217;s thoughts that come out and we catch the<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">thoughts at some point. But usually when we catch thoughts, there&#8217;s already a chain<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">of thoughts that led to that thought. So I try to bring my attention to the spout<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">so to catch the thought right at the moment that it initially comes out and then<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">just catch it and then let it go, right? I&#8217;ve never heard that. That is, I&#8217;m<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">totally going to try that today. That&#8217;s so cool. Yeah, yeah. So were you doing this<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">daily?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I was doing it, not daily, but probably, you know, a few times per week.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I was meditating and then also you know started going down the rabbit hole trying<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">different things got into like chigong which is more of this embodied movement kind<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">of practice and I think walking meditation is is great as well and I started<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">journaling around that time in high school as well I think it, you know, it<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">obviously is an excellent practice, and I&#8217;m building a journaling product right now,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">so I definitely believe in that. So, yeah, there is a, you know, a few different<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">practices that helped me find relief and, you know,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">find a different perspective in the moment and, right, you know,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">really connect with<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">something outside of what I was, you know,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I guess experience me on a, on a deeper level.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And then, yeah, we can go into, you know, what happened that led me to finally<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">address it. Yeah, I&#8217;m curious.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So you started journaling actually pretty young. Like, that&#8217;s pretty amazing that you<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">adopted that tool pretty early on. What did you write about? I was a I was a for<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">the most part I was a crisis journaler I would say like fencing on paper about<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">what was going on totally yeah like I remember looking I&#8217;d always like look back at<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">the last entry before I would write my my next entry and there was always something<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">happening. You know, I did have, I did have periods where I would write about,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">like, Dear Diary, here&#8217;s what I did today, you know, but that practice didn&#8217;t carry<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">on too much. And there were times where, you know, I&#8217;d hear about gratitude, you<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">know, journaling. And then I, like, would try that or, you know, and there were<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">other moments where I&#8217;d have, like, epiphanies and I&#8217;d write those down. But on the<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">whole, the times where I journaled the most were the times that I was going through<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">the most. Yeah. It&#8217;s like emotion. And I think I&#8217;ve heard you call it emotional<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">journaling. Yeah. Yeah. So you&#8217;re processing your feelings on paper.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Exactly. Which for somebody who can&#8217;t, like me, who couldn&#8217;t speak these things to<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">anybody else, right? else. Putting it on paper was great. It was the best thing<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">that I could do given that I was deeply uncomfortable with sharing anything with any<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">other human being. Gosh, that is so that is such a common theme for people in<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">recovery. It&#8217;s like we&#8217;re suffering and we don&#8217;t want to tell anybody that we&#8217;re<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">suffering. So starting with a journaling practice where you can just get it all out<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">of you is hugely helpful. And I&#8217;ve heard of people saying the worst thing and then<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">putting it in the fire, right? Like literally, you know, because you don&#8217;t want<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">people to, like, especially if you&#8217;re afraid that someone&#8217;s going to read it to say<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">the worst thing ever and then put it in the fire so that it can&#8217;t be used against<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">you, I suppose. Right? But yeah, that&#8217;s really important.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">You had mentioned that you had participated in men&#8217;s groups. That was like another<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">tool for you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And I know that you can we talk a little bit first about your like I know you&#8217;re<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">not you don&#8217;t have personal experience with having to struggle with addiction, but<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">you&#8217;ve had people in your life that have. Can you tell me a little bit first about<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">your, like I know you&#8217;re not you don&#8217;t have personal experience with having to<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">struggle with addiction, but you&#8217;ve had people in your life that have. Can you tell<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">me a little bit about that experience? Yeah, totally. So a very close cousin of<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">mine who I grew up with, he was older than me, but I really looked up to him.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And he was an addict from age 15 to<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And, you know, speaking of having the mask on, like, we&#8217;d hang out when I was, I<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">was like, you know, seven or eight and he was 15 or 16. And he would be doing<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">drugs. And I had no idea, you know, like. He didn&#8217;t know what he was doing. I<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">didn&#8217;t know what was going on at all, right? And nobody really did.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But, yeah, he and I were very close. And I actually ended up working with him.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">He ended up becoming sober.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">things that I&#8217;m really grateful for is that I got exposed to A .A. and the A .A.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">community through the process of working and living with him because we would hire<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">folks from recovery and from folks who are recovered from going through A .A.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And so a lot of the people that, yeah, I would hang out with were Um,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">my cousin would, you know, read from the big book, like as we were driving into<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">work. Um, sometimes we talk about that at work. Uh, and I actually attended some A<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">meetings myself, which was, um, a really, really, really actually formative experience<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">that I think fed into, um, the realization of the,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">like, like power of what a men&#8217;s group is as well, which I can, community and<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">men&#8217;s groups. How did you find a men&#8217;s group that wasn&#8217;t 12 -step oriented? Because<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I hear that a lot. Like in our society, we have like this epidemic of loneliness.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Like people are so disconnected. I feel like social media has been like poison. It&#8217;s<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">like this illusion of connectedness, but it&#8217;s not real connectedness.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And so I see, like, I have people in my life who really need community,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">but a lot of people aren&#8217;t finding that through traditional ways, like through church<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">or things like that. So how did you find a men&#8217;s group that was focused on<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">personal growth, connection, sharing, stuff? Like, how did you find that? I was just<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">really, really lucky. I was just really lucky, yeah. I mean, I wasn&#8217;t even looking<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">for it. It found me at the right moment. So, yeah, and so at that time I was<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">living in San Francisco. I had,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I was going through a confluence of three major transitions. One, being, you know,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">moving to a new city. Two, I had just gotten out of a relationship that was a<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">deep relationship that really stoked all of my fears and insecurities in a huge way.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">How old were you at this time period? I was around 26, 27 years old.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Oh, okay. Yeah, sorry to interrupt you. What was the third one? Yeah, and three was<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">the business that I had actually been working on with my cousin that I spoke about<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">in Austin. That had failed. So I was at a place where My identity from a career<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">front, relationship front, you know, friends and community, everything was up in the<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">air. That&#8217;s like implosion on every level. Yeah. And it was the deepest pain that<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I&#8217;d ever experienced in my life. But that pain forced me to address things and<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">confront things been resistant to do so to do before that right i think that&#8217;s the<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">gift of pain um they say that you know in the rooms they say that pain is the<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">touchstone of all growth and i feel like it creates this opportunity of willingness<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">that&#8217;s a level of willingness to like drop all your predisposition all your your<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">beliefs about what&#8217;s what&#8217;s possible who am i what should i be doing it&#8217;s like<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">everything it&#8217;s like that post -traumatic growth it&#8217;s like you&#8217;re just willing to just<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">like change everything and it&#8217;s very hard to get to that place of extreme<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">willingness until you have like deep pain they call it the gift of desperation and<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">it sounds like it sounds like man it sounds rough but it sounds like you got it I<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">got it. Yeah. I mean, it was the, for me at that point, that was the worst pain<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">that I had really ever allowed myself to even experience, right? Because I could<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">probably mask it and avoid it and all that kind of stuff. But after this was the<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">third time of being severely depressed. And I knew that there was stuff that I<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">needed to deal with that I could feel it, right? Like, you can feel I&#8217;m sweeping<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">something under the rug. I know there&#8217;s stuff for my childhood I&#8217;m not dealing with.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And instead of running away from it that time, I was like, you know what? Like, if<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">this is going to keep happening, I might as well just freaking deal with it now.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Right. Right. Yeah, logic kicks in. Right. And so I just knew I was like,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I can&#8217;t keep going like this. I have to deal with it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And so I first started seeking a therapist. That was the first step that I took.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">What kind of therapy?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Well, I guess I just went with a recommendation from, you know, other people around<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">me who had done therapy, right? And so I think it was sort of, I can&#8217;t remember<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">exactly. Like talk therapy, yeah yeah like a talk therapy like cognitive behavioral<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">therapy i don&#8217;t i don&#8217;t remember exactly which modality of therapy that the first<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">person i talked to practice there are so many yeah people go oh i went to therapy<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">and it didn&#8217;t work and i&#8217;m always like well what kind yeah and i think for me the<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">first therapist didn&#8217;t work the second therapist didn&#8217;t work and then after that i<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">uh i was like okay i&#8217;m just going to get like 10 therapists recommendations,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I&#8217;m going to look up therapists, and I&#8217;m going to come up with some questions that<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I want to ask every single one of them. And I ask every single therapist, the same<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">questions. What question did you ask? Basically, like I described what I was going<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">through what I was experiencing. And I said, you know, do you have experience, you<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">know, dealing with with folks like me? What have you done to like help those folks<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">can you tell me a little bit about your approach and then I ask them generally<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">like what&#8217;s your overall approach to therapy right how what is your like yeah how<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">do you approach therapy in general what what&#8217;s your what&#8217;s your modality or whatever<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">what&#8217;s your modality all that kind of stuff that was a great question can I just<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">interrupt you to tell you how impressed I am that you didn&#8217;t give up like I it<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">pains me when people are like oh I when they go to one therapist like you said<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">and it<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">therapy doesn&#8217;t work for me and they just go back to suffering what why what was<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">it about you that you decided to attack it and and in that manner i think the<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">pain was just high enough like that&#8217;s that&#8217;s pretty much it right did you have<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">faith that you were going to be able to solve this problem i think on some yeah<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">on some level the first thing was and i remember I remember being there in such<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">deep pain, and I realized that the only way, because, you know,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">at that point, there&#8217;s despair. You&#8217;re like, I feel like giving up, right? The<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">suicidal ideation is coming back. Is anything worth it? Right. And I realized that<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">on some level, I had to believe that things would get better. Yeah. I had to just<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">put my faith in believing that things would get better even though in those in that<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">moment there was nothing that was telling me that anything was going to get better<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">i i like on a like most levels i could not see that anything was going to get<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">better but i just had that feeling i was like<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">however delusional it is i have to believe that things can get better because that&#8217;s<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">the only way that i&#8217;m going to keep pushing through amazing that you brought up the<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">were delusion, right? Because there is such a thing as positive delusion,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">right? And if we kind of break it down, anything that&#8217;s not happening right now is<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">a mental delusion. And we tend to ruminate on negative mental delusions.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We don&#8217;t typically ruminate on positive mental delusions. But it&#8217;s like Schrodinger&#8217;s<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">cat, right it&#8217;s like that experiment where both things could be true so if both<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">things have an equal possibility of being true why not go dilute positive delusion<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">right 100 % yeah yeah i think the thing here and the sort of way that i see it<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">now is that right i believe we&#8217;re all made of various different psychological parts<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">right there&#8217;s there&#8217;s the parts of me that um<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">because I wasn&#8217;t sure, but yeah, internal family systems, I love internal family<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">systems. So looking at things from an internal family system&#8217;s kind of lens,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">right? In that moment where I was in deep depression, I was just with, like, that<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">part was like consuming everything, right? But that&#8217;s not the only part that exists,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">right? And so being able to create that, like perspective,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">like have a little bit of distance just create that tiny bit of distance where<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">there&#8217;s okay there&#8217;s depression there&#8217;s realizing that hey i am not depressed there&#8217;s<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">a part of me that is depressed right but that&#8217;s not all of me and then that<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">creates an opportunity to be like oh there is a part of me that believes too right<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">it may be quieter in this moment but it still exists right And when I&#8217;m not in<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">the throes of that deep despair, that part can get a little bit louder, you know,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">or a little bit more present, right? And slowly, right, you can kind of move from<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">that place, the part of deep despair and depression kind of running the show because<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">it is such a painful experience and makes sense that, right, when it happens, we<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">get completely enthralled by it. Oh, overwhelmed yeah right but it isn&#8217;t the only<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">part and we can slowly start to bring in this other part and i think practices<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">like meditation when used in that way right when when used in an integrative way<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">can be really really powerful so instead of you know i was using meditation in a<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">lot of ways to to escape and bypass but using meditation mindfulness practice to<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">integrate the internal experiences that you&#8217;re having, I think actually is maybe the<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">most effective, one of the most effective ways to meditate. Yeah,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">that&#8217;s some spiritual jih Tjitsu there where you&#8217;re like actually acknowledging the<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">painful thoughts and the rumination and getting a little bit of distance. Like that<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">is, I am not my thoughts is a really powerful pivot point. right? Because I feel<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">like<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">the reframe of how I felt towards the depression, towards the anxiety,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">because I don&#8217;t know about you, but I kind of know about you because we all are<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">kind of the same in the sense that it&#8217;s like, oh, I hate my depression. I hate my<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">anxiety. And the reframe, but you can&#8217;t hate yourself well, right? And the reframe<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">that IFS gave me was that, oh, this part is actually trying to protect me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It actually has a positive intention. And if I can bring love and compassion,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">like just that reframe of like, oh, I get it now. You&#8217;re just trying to help me<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">because I&#8217;m not able, I don&#8217;t have the skills, the patience, the, I have all the<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">self avoidance. And so you&#8217;re, you&#8217;re actually trying to help me avoid myself or<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">avoid these feelings by having this depression. I feel like that&#8217;s what addiction,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">too, is also is that, you know, I always felt like the purpose of obsession,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">addiction, it&#8217;s distraction. It&#8217;s distraction from pain that I can&#8217;t resolve to<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">resolution on my own. And so I love this reframe that you&#8217;re presenting with these<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">tools. It&#8217;s like just getting a little bit of separation through the meditation and<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">rolling, like, oh, these feelings are here to protect me. They&#8217;re here to teach me<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">something and that I can lean in and resolve it so that I can be,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">you know, ultimately be kind of free of it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Yeah, 100%. Right. And the magical thing about that this work is that as what I<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">found is that as I started integrating and resolving those things within me, it<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">allowed me to show up for other people, right? And in situations where other people<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">would trigger, you know, might trigger some of those same parts or whatever it is,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">it just kind of makes the world a little bit less crazy, right? Oh my gosh,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">that&#8217;s what we need right now is a little piece. There&#8217;s, yeah, there&#8217;s a great<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">quote. There&#8217;s this guy, Ramon Maharshi, who has this quote, he says,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">don&#8217;t like trying to like change the world to avoid your own pain is like trying<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">to wrap the world in leather to avoid the pain of of stepping on thorns he says<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">it&#8217;s much easier to wear shoes<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">that&#8217;s much easier and i just had a discussion this morning at a meeting you were<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">talking about triggers and what&#8217;s so interesting is this idea of under every trigger<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">is a treasure, right? Like, if we can sort of do the lean -in approach that you&#8217;re<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">talking about, like leaning into, like, I love how you went through 10 therapy, that<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">was amazing. But it&#8217;s like, you know what, let&#8217;s lean in and let&#8217;s figure out why<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">am I being triggered, What is underneath us? What tools can I bring to it to<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">resolve it so that because you&#8217;re right, it&#8217;s like we&#8217;re not going to be able to<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">control, you know, what&#8217;s going on on the outside. But when we can actually process<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">those feelings to resolution, then we&#8217;re actually free. And that is the treasure,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">right? It&#8217;s being free of things that used to eat, let those unheeled.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It&#8217;s like what you won&#8217;t deal with will control you, like the feelings that,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">basically yeah um and after really doing the internal work internal family systems<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">all that kind of stuff i realized it&#8217;s about integration rather than enlightenment<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">it&#8217;s about uh right when the trigger comes not bypassing escaping it being like<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">everything&#8217;s okay but sitting with it nurturing it right getting into right<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">relationship relationship with it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And that&#8217;s when the knot kind of untangles and,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">right, internally, there&#8217;s this sort of sense of harmony. And it&#8217;s not something that<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">happens once and that&#8217;s it, right? Don&#8217;t I know it. Right. It&#8217;s like this stuff is<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">like, it&#8217;s like showers, right? If you don&#8217;t take a shower for a couple days, you<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">stink. So. Yeah. Right. So it&#8217;s a practice.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It&#8217;s a practice, yeah. What I&#8217;ve unlocked, and I think what you unlock through this<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">journey, is the tools and the practices that help create that integration,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">that help create that centering. And it&#8217;s something that I have to continually do<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">because it can get really easy to, right, want to avoid discomfort,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">avoid pain, right? Some situation is triggering and then be like, oh, it&#8217;s their<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">fault.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">as the blame finger, right? Like, if you&#8217;re blaming somebody for triggering you,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">for making you feel a certain way, they actually have power over you. And as<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">someone who is slightly prideful, that is very offensive.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So, like, I want to take my power back. So recognizing that I have to let go of<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">the blame, that&#8217;s super empowering. It&#8217;s like, well, how do I take responsibility for<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">for my own failings. And I think the powerful thing, again, about this kind of work<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">and IFS and parts work is, like, if somebody&#8217;s making me upset, can I see them as<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">a part of me, right? Yes. If you spot it, you got it. Exactly.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Like, if I could treat them as just a part of me, right? And I consider them,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">like, as me in some way, right? And I&#8217;ve done all this work to integrate my parts.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">of embodied visceral sense of connectedness like oh they are me this is just another<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">part of me that is um you know embodied in in a different form right yeah but<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">it&#8217;s another part of me i&#8217;ve dealt with this part of myself before right how do<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">how would i deal with this part of myself right how would i integrate that and<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">then i can show up and respond to that situation with the other person in the same<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">way. Yeah, it&#8217;s so, it&#8217;s so interesting because in 12 -step, there&#8217;s something called<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">like the angry man&#8217;s prayer, the sick man&#8217;s prayer. It&#8217;s like somebody triggers you,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">upsets you, you know, you go to your sponsor with your drama, and they go, oh, you<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">need to pray for that person. And the first time I heard that, I was like, you<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">mean slash their tires. What do you pray for them? What are you talking about? And<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Eventually, what I figured out was this idea that people are just mirrors. You can&#8217;t<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">love or hate something about somebody unless you love it or hate it about yourself.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And I recognize, like, things that I hate in myself or, you know, in others,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">you know, condescension is something that used to really trigger, like when someone<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">was condescending to me, like, that would really trigger me or people that were rude<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">or self -centered or things like that. I had to sort of, it took some courage,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">but I had to recognize that I also have had those character traits at some time.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I was condescending to others. I was rude to others. I&#8217;ve been selfish and self<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">-centered. And it&#8217;s so funny because we want justice for ourselves, but we want<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">compassion and forgiveness. Am I saying that right? We want when someone else is<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">acting like that, we want justice, but when we do it, we want forgiveness but this<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">is the process of self -forgiveness is when you wreck it see in someone else you go<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">oh they&#8217;re afraid like when i behaved badly it was because i was afraid it was<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">because i was missing some information it was because i didn&#8217;t take care of myself<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">and i behave badly and then i felt bad about it so i would shut that part down<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">and then when someone else does it. I react with the same level of venom. But if<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I can learn to have compassion, you know, there&#8217;s this idea that you can&#8217;t escape<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">the same measuring stick that you judge others by. So if in my judgment I&#8217;m judging<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">someone as, you know, condescending, it&#8217;s like, oh, but I&#8217;ve been there too. And I<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">did it because I was afraid or whatever. And so when I start to have compassion<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">for the, when someone is displaying this, I can have it for myself,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">too. It creates this self -forgiveness and this. So it kind of, you know, leads to<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">this place of peace. But it needed to make sense to me when people were saying<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">like, oh, if you spot it, you got it. You know, I typically see that in terms of<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">negative attributes, but could also be used for positive attributes, too, like<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">recognizing there is when I admire somebody, it&#8217;s like, oh, I have those attributes<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">too. So it doesn&#8217;t have to be all, you know, triggers and shame. It can be<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">positive things because we kind of want to also think about where we want to go.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And I noticed in the app it was when I was, I&#8217;ve been practicing it over the last<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">few days in preparation for this conversation. And I noticed that it&#8217;s also sort of,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">it&#8217;s like helping me explore my feelings, validating my<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">is to help you understand what you, what your values are,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">who you want to become, and help you move toward that. So it does that in a,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">you know, a sort of subtle way. And so,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">yeah, and, you know, speaking to the piece of, I love that you brought that up,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">that it can be positive things, too, that you notice and other people, right?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Because if you notice something, right, that means that you, the first step of<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">anything is creating awareness around it, right? There&#8217;s so many things that we&#8217;re<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">just simply not aware of. And if we have an awareness around, there&#8217;s some trait in<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">somebody else that we really admire, for instance, right? Just that awareness means<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">that you&#8217;re able to see it. You might be able to bring that part out in yourself<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">in a way, you might already be bringing it out in a way, but you just want more<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">of it, right? And this is the power of self -inquiry and self -reflection is that it<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">can help kind of understand, well, what is it about that thing that is so appealing<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">to me, right? Why do I even want that? Where is that coming from?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And from that place of deep why, and right, we can kind of ground into,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">you know, this is why I&#8217;m doing this. And tools like Rosebud can help you actually,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">you know, notice ways in which you are practicing it, notice opportunities to<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">practice things more, right? And help you keep track of that over time because one<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">of the most powerful things about Rosebud is that it has memory. So it will also,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">you know, call you out basically. That&#8217;s so important. Yeah, it&#8217;s not so sycophant<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">cheerleader all the time, right? It&#8217;s like, oh, by the way. Right. Like, by the<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">way, you say that you want this, right? But I, you know, you talked about this and<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">noticed this pattern, right? So one of the most impactful things about Rosebud is<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">the way that it connects the dots between what happens and helps to create that<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">higher level of awareness, right? Because again, if we&#8217;re not aware of something, if<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">we&#8217;re not aware of a pattern that is playing out in our life, in our relationships,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">in ways we might be self -sabotaging current certain things or whatever it is, right?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We don&#8217;t have that awareness, then we can&#8217;t do anything about it. It&#8217;s operating in<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">the shadows, basically and so we want to bring things from the shadows into the<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">light yeah it&#8217;s it&#8217;s interesting it&#8217;s like we all have these blind spots and I feel<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">like you know we that&#8217;s why we need um external but like I know you have men&#8217;s<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">groups and therapy so like but this is just another tool to it can be done at any<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">time that&#8217;s why I was like oh this is going to be really powerful for people you<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">know it&#8217;s like you can&#8217;t people are not available 24 -7 so it&#8217;s nice to be able to<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">have a tool that is available 24 -7 to do to just help us recognize their oh I&#8217;m<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">in the pattern again but really it&#8217;s about what do I need what actions do I need<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">to take that are different like what else can I do it&#8217;s like oh I&#8217;m here in the<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">same spot again it&#8217;s like I&#8217;m at the end of another relationship I&#8217;m at the end of<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">another another toxic friendship or relationship. You know, I have another failure of<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">some kind. It&#8217;s like, well, how did I get here and what do I need to do<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">different? It&#8217;s nice to have, you know, like something to help you work through all<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">that. And is that what you see for people that are sort of in recovery is just an<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">ability to have like constant 24 -7 an opportunity to work through stuff like that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Yeah, I think it&#8217;s something that can, you know, so often in recovery, you&#8217;re sort<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">of going from different, through different processes, right? You go to detox and then<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">go to, right, inpatient and then outpatient and so we&#8217;re living. And so you&#8217;re going<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">through all these different things. You might be seeing different counselors through<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">that process potentially, right? I think AA is really powerful because you might have<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">a single sponsor. So that becomes a through line, right? And somebody that you can<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">talk to at any time. But, right, Rosebud can be really powerful because it&#8217;s<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">something that you can carry with you. It&#8217;s a journal, right, that you carry with<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">you through all of these stages of this process. And it&#8217;s something that can really<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">help in between if there are, you know, A meetings or, you know,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">meetings with your sponsor or meetings with a counselor. it&#8217;s something that can help<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">in between those sessions, right? And a lot of people use Rosebud to help prep for<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">the next, you know, whatever counselor meeting or whatever. It&#8217;s like, what did I<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">journal about this week, right? And then it kind of pulls everything up for you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And then you go into it and you&#8217;re like, okay, this is the thing that I need to<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">talk about. Like what am I, you know, for me in men&#8217;s groups, for instance, every<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">single men&#8217;s group meeting I would go in and I would feel into what am I most<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">afraid to share?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">What if I had a sponsor used to ask me, is there anything you don&#8217;t want to say?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Right.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And that was that I knew whatever came up, that was the thing I needed to talk<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">about. Yeah. So it&#8217;s like leaning into the discomfort, right? Yeah. Creating that<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">space for that practice. And also for folks going through recovery, there was a<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">nightly inventory.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">a different dimension and meaning on the gratitude. And it maybe allows us to see<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">other things that we&#8217;re grateful for for similar reasons. So yeah,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">again, it&#8217;s something that you kind of carry with you. It&#8217;s something that supports<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">in between sessions. It&#8217;s something that if it&#8217;s whatever, 2 a .m., you wake up in<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">the middle of the night, and you just need somewhere to process something that it<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">can be a great place. and yeah I<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">deal with, right? And I think going through recovery is sort of a similar process,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">like it takes a village. And so it does. No,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I see this as a really powerful tool. And it&#8217;s kind of one of those things. It&#8217;s,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">you know, over time, you sort of develop this toolbox, right? And so journaling has<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">always been one of my favorite tools to use and to recommend. But there have been<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">times when I journaling practice feels a little stale because I&#8217;m just sort of, you<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">know, ruminating in my own thought. So I could see the potential of, you know,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">having some, you know, this tool to sort of that knows me and has history and can<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">call me out on my<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">or whatever. Say, hey, have you, have you tried this? Or how do you feel about<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">that? So, yeah, I feel like this is a really important tool. Yeah, well done,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">too. I really like using it. I&#8217;ve used it for a few days now. And I&#8217;m excited to<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">explore it some more before this episode comes out. So, well done.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Well done. Thank you. I appreciate it. Yeah. Was there anything else I didn&#8217;t ask<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">you about around the tool or the practices that you want to close with<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">um let<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">me see like how has it um like what is your depression working with depression feel<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">like now hmm Yeah, I think so I did have a experience of depression even after<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">like the one where I was 26, 27, that led to the,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">you know, inspiration for Rosebud. But the difference was that I was able to kind<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">of contextualize it and be with it in a way that I knew that hey this is just a<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">sadness and I know how to deal with it right I just have to lean into it share<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">about it right feel the feelings not try to cover it up mask it escape from it<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">yeah right and that Right.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Just those practices again, I was able to, it&#8217;s like a sailor that&#8217;s sailing over,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">you know, the seas, right? Like let&#8217;s say you&#8217;re going from, you know, the U .S.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">to, you know, to Europe across the Atlantic. And you know that, hey, this is a<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">turbulent part of the water, but I know what to do to get through it, right? Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And that&#8217;s the difference. It&#8217;s like someone who&#8217;s sailing that for the first time<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">versus somebody who is sailing it, has sailed it before and is sailing it again,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">and now actually has the proper tool to deal with it. And when the big wave comes,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">it&#8217;s freaking out and being like, you know, actually, let&#8217;s turn left and go<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">completely somewhere else or, right, let&#8217;s not go to Europe. Let&#8217;s go to Antarctica.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">right yeah so there&#8217;s there&#8217;s that calm, right?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And I think that&#8217;s what these practices provide.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And, you know, if there was something that I would tell myself as a,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">you know, going back to that 15, 16 year old, Sean is, you know,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">the pain is a gift, right? Lean into the pain, lean into the discomfort. It&#8217;s okay,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">right? There&#8217;s nothing that you&#8217;re experiencing that other people don&#8217;t experience,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">right? We all, like you said, we all have the same stuff that we&#8217;re going through.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And I think that&#8217;s one of the most amazing things about AA and about men&#8217;s groups<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">is that it just allows you to see how really connected we all are and how all<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">this stuff that we carry and go through. It&#8217;s not like we invented it, right? We<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">didn&#8217;t invent any of this stuff. This is stuff everybody shares. It&#8217;s existed for a<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">long time, right? We might be carrying it in this moment, but we didn&#8217;t invent it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And it&#8217;s through, you know, bringing it out into the light, whether that&#8217;s<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">journaling, whether that&#8217;s with community, that actually allows for the healing to<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">happen.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That&#8217;s beautiful. I feel like that&#8217;s a great place to sort of wrap up. And I just<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">want to thank you for your time today. Thank you for your transparency. I love what<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">you&#8217;re doing. AI journaling is really opening up a whole new path for people to be<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">able to process their feelings to resolution. So well done. Thank you so much.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Thank you. It&#8217;s a pleasure to chat with you today.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Today I am speaking with Sean Dadashi, the co-founder of Rosebud, an interactive AI journaling app. He was so brave in sharing his story<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":5792,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"nf_dc_page":"","_exactmetrics_skip_tracking":false,"_monsterinsights_skip_tracking":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_feature_clip_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":true,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2},"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-5787","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-uncategorized"],"aioseo_notices":[],"aioseo_head":"\n\t\t<!-- All in One SEO 5.0.4 - aioseo.com -->\n\t<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Today I am speaking with Sean Dadashi, the co-founder of Rosebud, an interactive AI journaling app. He was so brave in sharing his story of struggling with feeling of not belonging when he was young, and how he struggled with the terrifying darkness of suicidal depression. 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